9-1-5...Pics

[annikan skywalker]

Dunno...on Mac

Portable A-Star on Purtzer


Since there is no universal manner or standard sfor all the pics we analyze such as camera height, distance to object, shutter speed, etc..it's hard to have a "controlled" environment that were all seeking...so the arguements will continue to exist until all pictures are take with a "control cube" and done in 3D...so the debate continues..

Lets just analyze them for the way they are..not the way they should be....

AS

[Trig]

Last time I checked, my head is attached to my spine. When my spine moves back off the ball, so does my head. When my head moves back off the ball, so does my spine.

I have yet to see a picture that shows a spine moving without a head moving. I don't see how there is any difference between the head being the center of the pivot or the base of neck/top of spine. I'd like to see a picture showing one moving without the other.

Personally, I think you either sway off the ball or you don't. And if you sway off, you have to sway back to hit it.

I've done a lot of things with my swing over the years. I used to not move my head AND I had a reverse pivot. Then I went to swaying, which got rid of my reverse pivot. Last year, I put TGM into my swing, learned to set up properly to the ball and now I do not sway OR reverse pivot. It has made me a better player - without question.

[djd]

as- mac's head appears to move slightly forward (toward the target) on the downswing (pic #5 ) and then maybe a bit backwards (pic 7 ), but perhaps this appearance is due to head rotation ... purtzer's head, however, certainly appears to move backwards on the downswing (pics 6&7 ) ... what is the particular significance (if any) to their head movements with respect to contributing to the efficiency of their individual swings. thanks.

[Martee]

I think it would be valid to say that how they are positioned at set up is not a good starting point to attempt to determine how much movement.

I think creating a marker at impact and then applying it backwards might be more valid.

With the exception of Mac, the movement between frame 1 and frame 2 appears to be more than the movement between frame 2 and frame 6.

Wonder if asked of each, what would they look like if they were asked to set up to the ball as if you at impact? Guess I am wondering if they know where they are going, or they know what they want out of feel and it results in them getting there?

[DOCW3]

OKPlace your Own lines on this sequence , well known on this site (the gallery )


I personally mesure 1,5 mm (sorry Im French) of backward moving from the center of the head to the vertical of the ball, in the backswing, and 1,5 mm frontward (from the adress position) in the downswing and followthrough. Due to the scale of the image the total moving of the head is approximatively 9 cm. Everybody can appreciate in the same time the movement of the hips. In such conditions a steady head seems to be a restrictive object.

The frames between 4 and 5 are needed to accurately measure Mr. Hogan's head movement. In these frames his head is still moving toward the target and dropping.

DRW

[Homerson]

Lynn,

One of the possible effects of a centered head is a reverse pivot(in real world teaching as Brian might say!).

What do you say to the reverse pivot guy when you give him a lesson?

What does Vicki have to say from a physical/biomechanics standpoint?

I say this due to seminars I did with Greg Rose(head of the Titleist Performance Institute) who said that 80% of back injuries in golf are related to a reverse pivot or reverse spine angle.

I know you came back from back injuries so I AM very interested in the personal changes you made to redress those issues, but I'm also very interested about the possible ramifications for your students, good and bad?

Very interesting discussion,
Homerson

Yoda/Lynn, Yoda/Lynn,

Any interest in responding to these questions?

Also, what do you mean, Annikan, by the eyes or head changing the ball flight?

[galopin]

The idea wasn't the problem. Spending 10 years suffering to break 80 by moving my ^%#^#@ head and double shifting was the problem. The only reason I could break 80 then was because I could and can make everything when a putter's in my hands. I thought I was getting good TGM instruction before I met Lynn, but later found I was getting someone's take on TGM. It was a take that didn't even include a hitting procedure. This person (not Brian Manzella, so no false rumors lower this thread) said, "through our research, (in other words, not Homer's) we've found that your right eye needs to be over your right foot at the top of your swing. Additionally, shifting isn't a problem as long as you stay in between shaft plane and somewhere around shoulder plane." As a result, I couldn't play dead in a western movie.

When I moved closer to 1-L, I played better. In fact, I was infinitely better. I am, by no means, perfect. But I will guarantee you that I have fewer moving parts, and as a result, better consistency. My search WAS, IS, AND ALWAYS WILL BE for an uncompensated stroke. As a result, I play better than I've ever played and have the scores to prove it. I tried going down the road of letting someone else convince me that they were smarter than Homer and had better ideas. If Homer says anything is an "ideal" or chooses one component over another, I accept his assessment. If anyone was ever thorough about anything, it was Homer. I was fooled once, but I'm smart enough not to be fooled twice. It was a blessing to meet someone like Lynn that's not trying to re-write Homer's work. And I'm not saying that you, Brian, are trying to do so. But if the Albert Eienstein of golf tells me that something is "recommended" and a guy from Louisiana tells me to do it differently, I'll have to choose the author of the book. I'm not trying to slight you because I think you're a good teacher. But, I think Homer got it right over, and over, and over, and over...................

In all honesty, the only area that I heard from you and that I would have a real problem implementing was the exaggerated finish swivel that had the clubface laying horizontal to the ground. I think that's a good thing for someone that steers to try to do, but I wouldn't have them do it in reality. Other than that, I think we had many more areas of agreement than disagreement.

This is an awesome post, Ted, and I totally agree with it (not that it will help you sleep any better at night).

[galopin]

The patented bobbing is Tiger Woods' attempt to "seek a position" as Ben would say. If Tiger were to begin with this more face down position to start, the patented bobbing would disappear.

While I'm handing out praise, I also agree with this. It's a very important point.

[Yoda]

Yoda/Lynn, Yoda/Lynn,

Any interest in responding to these questions?

Also, what do you mean, Annikan, by the eyes or head changing the ball flight?

Really pushed for time right now, Homerson, but I'll be posting in this thread in the next day or so.

Meanwhile, let me just say that the cure for the Reverse Pivot is the correct Pivot! That is, a Stationary Head properly supported by the Knees and Feet; a Flat Backstroke Shoulder and Hip Turn; and a proper Right Forearm Takeaway that Traces the Plane Line with Extensor Action applied.

Though the bending Right Elbow and Fanning Right Forearm are not Pivot Components, they can really help the Reverse Pivoter. That's because if the Arms are frozen (Paw Minor Basic Stroke 10-3-H) you're doomed to a 'rocking only' Body Motion that virtually guarantees a Reverse Pivot.

[annikan skywalker]

Yoda/Lynn, Yoda/Lynn,

Any interest in responding to these questions?

Also, what do you mean, Annikan, by the eyes or head changing the ball flight?

Not changing the ball flight...reread...changes with different ball flights...If the horizontal axis of the eyes are parallel to the plane line...it's easy to "trace" a straight plane line...If the horizontal axis of the eyes rotates to the clockwise ..so does the hand path and plane line tend to like to shift cross-line right.....likewise a counterclockwise rotation of the horizontal axis of the eyes the tendency for the hand path and plane line to shift cross-line left...

"The golf swing begins and ends with the eyes and the hands"....Mac O'Grady