Eldrick Picture..good?bad? depends?

[JTillery]

Tiger may be able to hit it high and drawing from here.......but no, no one typing about golf swings. Lot of work to arrive at a shallow angle of attack from that position. Super quick release along with a literal vertical jump to help aid the throwout. I assume everyone likes the big angle, which can be rewarding......but there are some other elements. Left arm and shaft angle is only one element. What about that pivot? That spine angle? Everyone in this thread may be covetous of the angle assuming its a power aide, but if most people , as in almost everyone, got into that position.....fore left. Again, IMHO

[12 piece bucket]

Tiger may be able to hit it high and drawing from here.......but no, no one typing about golf swings. Lot of work to arrive at a shallow angle of attack from that position. Super quick release along with a literal vertical jump to help aid the throwout. I assume everyone likes the big angle, which can be rewarding......but there are some other elements. Left arm and shaft angle is only one element. What about that pivot? That spine angle? Everyone in this thread may be covetous of the angle assuming its a power aide, but if most people , as in almost everyone, got into that position.....fore left. Again, IMHO

So what exactly is the logic behind the "I want to look like that" would you say? We are still fundamentally operating under the assumption as you state above that that "look" "position" is a "power aide".....is it? If this picture makes some "goo goo"...and some say this is "perfect"....but you say that "most people" end up fore left....is it a model position? Or is it chasing a "look"?

To this point those that say "wow that looks awesome"....haven't effectively defended as I see it why it is "awesome".....

[whip]

From here, Eldrick must COMPENSATE for the disrupted shoulder to ball radius caused by the bobbing of his head, (as described as a "power move" by his current swing instructor Sean Foley in THIS article).

[JTillery]

From here, Eldrick must COMPENSATE for the disrupted shoulder to ball radius caused by the bobbing of his head, (as described as a "power move" by his current swing instructor Sean Foley in THIS article).

Whip,
you are correct. However, if you start looking you'd be surprised how many great players do it. All the big hitters, and anytime the others try to catch another gear, they'll go down then up to some extent. Long drive guys have huge verticals. Can't do a vertical if you don't go down first. Is it a compensated radius you have to deal with? Absolutely.......but it s definitely happening.

[JTillery]

From here, Eldrick must COMPENSATE for the disrupted shoulder to ball radius caused by the bobbing of his head, (as described as a "power move" by his current swing instructor Sean Foley in THIS article).

So what exactly is the logic behind the "I want to look like that" would you say? We are still fundamentally operating under the assumption as you state above that that "look" "position" is a "power aide".....is it? If this picture makes some "goo goo"...and some say this is "perfect"....but you say that "most people" end up fore left....is it a model position? Or is it chasing a "look"?

To this point those that say "wow that looks awesome"....haven't effectively defended as I see it why it is "awesome".....

Great question bucket. All we've ever heard is to hold angles, hold angles, hold angles. So when people see an illustration that could be described as a "held" angle, they love it. Truth is, Tiger isn't attempting to "hold" anything. He's preparing to knock the fire out of something. Athletically, he just ends up with angle that deep because, we'll, that's more ammo to knock the fire out of something with. That particular element just gets a lot of attention.....but what's the difference in it and a slightly different pivot with a little less angle for the average guy. (Not Tiger, he's already there) Understandably, we still need roll at least to some degree from that position to square the face, but most of the business left to do from that position would be the uncocking, the number two PA, which will be sending the club down. (Particularly if there is "bobbing" down then up). Wouldn't be much different than having a bit steeper plane angle, or a more forward pivot, but a little less angle. Now trust me, I understand that most players and all bad players have no lag, no lead, and bent left wrists before the balls off the face. I think because of this, that Tiger position is viewed as the anti hack, the anti throwaway, etc. Its also validated because almost all the good players get into a position at least more similar to that than left arm and shaft in line two feet before the ball. The deal though, is that zero of them are trying to get into that position. None of them are trying to hold angles. Even if they say so for a playing lessons for the pros or something on golf channel. Never crosses their minds in the real world. Its a product of proper physics, proper kinematic sequences. They just are able to create speed and have it max out where the ball sits. A still photo of what appears to be retained angle is just the obvious result, but never ever the goal.

[whip]

Whip,
you are correct. However, if you start looking you'd be surprised how many great players do it. All the big hitters, and anytime the others try to catch another gear, they'll go down then up to some extent. Long drive guys have huge verticals. Can't do a vertical if you don't go down first. Is it a compensated radius you have to deal with? Absolutely.......but it s definitely happening.

I am aware that many tour players in fact drop their head, and many who do, hit it far. It is part of their body related procedure which MAY amplify physics and reduce throwaway, but it carries a prohibitive price tag, and a compensation Must be made. Ask yourself this, do you think tiger would really lose distance if he didn't bob his head? Even if he did ( which he wouldn't), His swing speed is 120-125 plus, would it matter if it dropped a few MPHs in exchange for a lot more fairways hit? He is a professional golfer after all, isn't it a little embarrassing hitting only half the fairways...Wouldn't a centered motion create more distance because of the speed created by the efficiency of the motion? and by him not having to create compensating forces with muscular effort, the flow of speed would be less interrupted and the club head orbit less disrupted. Also I guarantee tiger could hit it further and straighter with a longer length driver and a head that does not bob or maybe a lower loft and more forward ball position. tigers stats indicate he needs to hit it straighter off the tee, The nationwide guys consistently average longer distances off the tee than the PGA tour guys, there's a reason Why, accuracy is more Important on the big boy tour than hitting a drive 315 vs 305.

The case could be made that this is what tiger has done for so long it is a personal preference that must be worked around instead of changed per se, nevertheless it is a snare. Probably just by backing it off a little bit tiger would improve his accuracy and still maintain his coveted power, in fact I would bet he hits it further.

[JTillery]

Tigers motion couldn't be anymore centered left and right, though there is some down and up. It was also there when he WAS hitting fairways and winning 70 times. I don't disagree that it could make him drive it more consistently, but the elephant in the room for his driving ability is that picture IMHO

[whip]

What do you mean when you say that picture J? Snap release? Wonder if the head drop was the same, it seems more forceful than ever since he got to foley, I know his head has always dropped but it seems like ever since he got on this s&t-esque motion(pelvic thrust, ski jump twist nonsense....) the motion seems more forced, more jammed than ever. As we know In this game inches are miles.

[12 piece bucket]

Great question bucket. All we've ever heard is to hold angles, hold angles, hold angles. So when people see an illustration that could be described as a "held" angle, they love it. Truth is, Tiger isn't attempting to "hold" anything. He's preparing to knock the fire out of something. Athletically, he just ends up with angle that deep because, we'll, that's more ammo to knock the fire out of something with. That particular element just gets a lot of attention.....but what's the difference in it and a slightly different pivot with a little less angle for the average guy. (Not Tiger, he's already there) Understandably, we still need roll at least to some degree from that position to square the face, but most of the business left to do from that position would be the uncocking, the number two PA, which will be sending the club down. (Particularly if there is "bobbing" down then up). Wouldn't be much different than having a bit steeper plane angle, or a more forward pivot, but a little less angle. Now trust me, I understand that most players and all bad players have no lag, no lead, and bent left wrists before the balls off the face. I think because of this, that Tiger position is viewed as the anti hack, the anti throwaway, etc. Its also validated because almost all the good players get into a position at least more similar to that than left arm and shaft in line two feet before the ball. The deal though, is that zero of them are trying to get into that position. None of them are trying to hold angles. Even if they say so for a playing lessons for the pros or something on golf channel. Never crosses their minds in the real world. Its a product of proper physics, proper kinematic sequences. They just are able to create speed and have it max out where the ball sits. A still photo of what appears to be retained angle is just the obvious result, but never ever the goal.

Are we sure Eldrick isn't being taught this? Some cats saying "that's a CP cut"....whatever that means.....

[12 piece bucket]

I am well aware that many tour players in fact drop their head, and many who do hit it far. It is part of their body related procedure which may amplify physics and reduce throwaway, but it carries a prohibitive price tag, and a compensation Must be made. Ask yourself this, do you think tiger would really lose distance if he didn't bob his head? Even if he did, His swing speed is 125 plus, would it matter if it dropped a few MPHs in exchange for a lot more fairways hit? He is a professional golfer after all, isn't it a little embarrassing hitting only half the fairways...Wouldn't a centered motion create more distance because of the efficiency of the motion? and by him not having to create compensating forces with muscular effort, the flow of speed would be less interrupted and the club head orbit less disrupted. Also I guarantee tiger could hit it further and straighter with a longer length driver and a head that does not bob or maybe a lower loft and more forward ball position. Sure maybe bobbing amplifies tigers physics, does tiger really need more power, No his stats would indicate he needs to hit it straighter. The nationwide guys consistently average longer distances off the tee than the PGA tour guys, there's a reason Why, accuracy is more Important on the big boy tour than hitting a drive 315 vs 305.

a player has a limit to hand speed, maximum controllable hand speed as jtillery pointed out, the speed is happening, flowing through this position, he is not trying to hold off, which would In effect actually slow down the whole sequence because it's not a flowing force, rather it is an intuitive result of MAJOR TALENT tiger instinctively senses how to apply a high power sequence. Is this thread only about the snap release?

The case could be made that this is what tiger has done for so long it is a personal preference that must be worked around instead of changed per se, nevertheless it is a snare. Probably just by backing it off a little bit tiger would improve his accuracy and still maintain his coveted power.

Good question......

The thread is about the analysis of that picture....


Is that picture a snap release?