Hands Controlled Pivot-- 2 Schools

[YodasLuke]

Is that Ted in the second photo?

It can't be me. He doesn't look pregnant.

[KOC]

Had a long discussion with a TGM AI in Hong Kong about 10-24-F “Flip release”...Pivot controlled hand.

We said that we should really work out the different between HAND CONTROLLED PIVOT & PIVOT CONTROLLED HAND.

I, JMHO, believe Homer terms “Hand Controlled Pivot” and “Pivot Controlled Hands” does not mean “hand request the pivot” or “Pivot in response to hand” stuffs ….

I see these 2 terms as monitoring HANDS or PIVOT with Controlled Pivot or Controlled Hands respectively.

So many unnecessary disagreements were arisen with Hand control pivot or pivot control hand, seeing or treating the word controlled as control. As Homer said: always a dictionary definition.

Con·trolled – adjective
Con·trol – Verb

Just like Educated Hands (adjective with a noun)
Controlled Pivot
Controlled Hands

There is no terms of "Hand control pivot" or "Pivot control hand"

3rd school or primary school of thought?

[Bagger Lance]

KOC,

I think the premise of TGM and Homers 40 years of work are based on the concept of a hands controlled pivot in which the hands are directed towards an aiming point.

The opposite is the use of pivot controlled hands which does not employ an aiming point procedure. Release happens when the hands reach their habitual release point in relation to the body.

[KevCarter]

KOC,

I think the premise of TGM and Homers 40 years of work are based on the concept of a hands controlled pivot in which the hands are directed towards an aiming point.

The opposite is the use of pivot controlled hands which does not employ an aiming point procedure. Release happens when the hands reach their habitual release point in relation to the body.

Hands controlled pivot seems way too easy to be this good. I've never had so much fun hitting balls, and that's inside off freaking mats!

Kevin

[KOC]

KOC,

I think the premise of TGM and Homers 40 years of work are based on the concept of a hands controlled pivot in which the hands are directed towards an aiming point.

The opposite is the use of pivot controlled hands which does not employ an aiming point procedure. Release happens when the hands reach their habitual release point in relation to the body.

Teachers, it stated the aiming point concept is employable for pivot controlled hand, 10-24-F.

[Bagger Lance]

Teachers, it stated the aiming point concept is employable for pivot controlled hand, 10-24-F.

Not a teacher KOC, just a fellow seeker.

It is stated in 10-24-F that there is an "alternative" to the aiming point procedure. Meaning there is no direct aiming point procedure available for the Flip Release, but there is an alternative for getting in the right position such that the hands reach the correct low point (impact fix) condition for straightaway ball/clubface impact. That is; opening or closing the stance line depending on club selection.

I'm not against the Flip Release and I'll wager that the vast majority of golfers use it unknowingly. Classic basic instruction:
Use a shoulder turn takeway
Keep the Triangle maintained
Turn around the spine
Swing the clubhead
Roll the forearms through impact

Nothing really wrong with it except there is no right forearm takeaway and no aiming with the hands to their impact fix location, thus no guarantee of consistency. (I guess there is something basically wrong here).

I think your word play of Control vs Controlled is not a good use of grammer. I agree with the dictionary definitions, but when they are used as a descriptive title "Pivot Control Hands" it is grammatically incorrect. Unfortunately the English language isn't very flexible so even if Homer wanted to use Pivot Control Hands to better express the "action" of the procedure, it would still be grammatically correct to describe it as Pivot Controlled Hands.

[Thom]

Unfortunately the English language isn't very flexible so even if Homer wanted to use Pivot Control Hands to better express the "action" of the procedure, it would still be grammatically correct to describe it as Pivot Controlled Hands.

Hmmm....in danish we don't even have a word for alignment.....explaining TGM in my language can be real hard. I'm writing a series of articles for a danish golf paper, trying to explain the various concepts of The Golfing Machine, and according to the editor I have to do it so that my grandmother gets it....now, that's a challenge

sorry for the threadjacking...back to topic

[KOC]

Bagger Lance,

I don't see the word "alternative" in my 6th edition, am I missing somewhere?

It reads:-

"The Aiming Point (6-E) equivalent for this procedure is the "Open" and "Closed" Stance Line (10-5) which varies the Ball location in its relation to the body for any given Release Type (10-20, 10-24), to compensate for different Clubshaft lengths and must be worked out by experiment (See 9-1-1) because the players habitual Pivot procedure will bring the Hands very dependably into Release Position at the same point in relation to the body.

I know that no one will buy my "playing word" concept...but when I read 3-F-5 (1); 9-1-1 through 9-1-12; chapter 4 and 5 wrist and hand education and monitoring, i really don't have a concept that which one control which one...9-0 The Basic Motions that constitute the Golf Stroke are
divided among three separate-but simultaneous and synchronous Zones of the action that is occurring throughout the stroke.

I will stop here as my english is bad, golf stroke is bad, just a hacker who don't understand the book but hoping that there will be no disargeement of hand to pivot or pivot to hand. I hope I would follow 3-5-F to enjoy practice and playing...G.O.L.F. Fun

[Bagger Lance]

I hope I would follow 3-5-F to enjoy practice and playing...G.O.L.F. Fun

Hey KOC - no worries. I used alternative and equivalent interchangeably. Probably not a good idea and if it helps, just substitute the word "equivalent" in my post above as I probably took some liberties.

You are right that the golf swing is a very wholistic action through all of the zones; Its an athletic endeavour. What is in control is your intent. Beyond that it is directing the most efficient and productive tool at your disposal towards that intent.

Because I aim, my intent is to compress the golf ball with a square clubface on the third inside dimple from the back center, what is the best tool to accomplish that goal? I've learned that the aiming point for my pitching wedge is about 3 inches in front of the ball so I pick the spot on the ground along the baseline of the plane and from the top of my swing, I drag the #3 pressure point as far down to that location as I possibly can, all the while monitoring lag pressure so I don't release it too early and have the right amount of pressure for the distance I have chosen.

whew...thats a lot to think about! Good thing I don't have to think at all because my job is to look at the baseline spot and aim my #3 pressure point at it. In my mind all I'm thinking about is distance to the pin. Its as easy as throwing a stone.

What if I want to hit my pitching wedge 100 yards instead of 120 yards? My aiming point doesn't change but my pivot must accomodate these demands based on lag pressure felt in my right hand.

Thats all it is. An awareness of lag pressure and where it is being directed.

I really don't want to bash pivot controlled hands because I believe their are teachers who can teach it well, players who find it very effective and player athletes who earn millions on the PGA TOUR using it.

I played today and will play again tomorrow, and even though I attempted an awareness of my hands to their aiming point, there were plenty of shots when my pivot was boss and a few minor pushes and pulls as a result. Oh well, Its all good.

[KevCarter]

Bagger Lance,

I don't see the word "alternative" in my 6th edition, am I missing somewhere?

It reads:-

"The Aiming Point (6-E) equivalent for this procedure is the "Open" and "Closed" Stance Line (10-5) which varies the Ball location in its relation to the body for any given Release Type (10-20, 10-24), to compensate for different Clubshaft lengths and must be worked out by experiment (See 9-1-1) because the players habitual Pivot procedure will bring the Hands very dependably into Release Position at the same point in relation to the body.

I know that no one will buy my "playing word" concept...but when I read 3-F-5 (1); 9-1-1 through 9-1-12; chapter 4 and 5 wrist and hand education and monitoring, i really don't have a concept that which one control which one...9-0 The Basic Motions that constitute the Golf Stroke are
divided among three separate-but simultaneous and synchronous Zones of the action that is occurring throughout the stroke.

I will stop here as my english is bad, golf stroke is bad, just a hacker who don't understand the book but hoping that there will be no disargeement of hand to pivot or pivot to hand. I hope I would follow 3-5-F to enjoy practice and playing...G.O.L.F. Fun

FWIW, I hate to see you selling yourself short KOC. I have been impressed by your TGM knowledge for years, and you have been very helpful to my learning!

Kevin