Physics

[bts]

It's my view, and I may be incorrect, that "hit vs. swing" doesn't start until release point. Both hits and swings are "pulled" until you get to your release point. Only from there will you continue to pull (drag) or hit (drive). I think this is why they both look similar...because they ARE similar until release.

For me, I intend to keep pulling for swinging or pushing for hitting.

[6bmike]

The "pull" in Hitting is the taking up the slack and then the push begins from the stable shoulder as the right arm drives the clubhead into the ball.

[MBCpro]

Trigolt,
I think you are confusing clubhead lag and accumulator lag, a big angle between clubhead and hands is accumulator lag, not necessarily clubhead lag, clubhead lag is simply a condition of trailing, Tom Watson has great clubhead lag with not very much accumulator lag. ( full sweep release).
I am pretty sure you know this but I do not want those that do not know to get confused between the lag's. (Pivot lag, accumulator lag, & clubhead lag)

Todd

[Trig]

Trigolt,
I think you are confusing clubhead lag and accumulator lag, a big angle between clubhead and hands is accumulator lag, not necessarily clubhead lag, clubhead lag is simply a condition of trailing, Tom Watson has great clubhead lag with not very much accumulator lag. ( full sweep release).
I am pretty sure you know this but I do not want those that do not know to get confused between the lag's. (Pivot lag, accumulator lag, & clubhead lag)

Todd

Could you explain this a little more? I'm not sure I DO know it!

[EdZ]

There is a difference between clubhead lag, and true lag 'pressure'.

Brian's shopping cart image is the best way to describe the difference. (see article on his site).


In a nutshell, if you ran downhill pushing a shopping cart, lag 'pressure' is maintained by continuing to run faster than the cart - you are still providing a push - providing support.

Now, you could run with the cart, and keep up with it, but not be ADDING any pressure - it would look like you are pushing it, but really you are just 'moving at the same pace'.

Don't confuse clubhead lag (moving at the same pace, keeping that clubhead trailing) - with lag pressure (adding 'push' - adding support).

In other words, if you can't keep up the speed to 'push the cart', you are going TOO FAST.

Remember - slow and heavy, feel PP#3

As soon as you give up lag pressure, you give up mass - you are 'bouncing' the club off impact, rather than 'supporting'.

This is true, hitting or swinging IMO, although you will feel it more directly in hitting.

[MizunoJoe]

Clubhead Lag is the clubhead trailing a bent shaft. Accumulator Lag is the amount of the Accumulator that has yet to be unloaded.

[Trig]

There is a difference between clubhead lag, and true lag 'pressure'.

Brian's shopping cart image is the best way to describe the difference. (see article on his site).


In a nutshell, if you ran downhill pushing a shopping cart, lag 'pressure' is maintained by continuing to run faster than the cart - you are still providing a push - providing support.

Now, you could run with the cart, and keep up with it, but not be ADDING any pressure - it would look like you are pushing it, but really you are just 'moving at the same pace'.




Don't confuse clubhead lag (moving at the same pace, keeping that clubhead trailing) - with lag pressure (adding 'push' - adding support).

In other words, if you can't keep up the speed to 'push the cart', you are going TOO FAST.

Remember - slow and heavy, feel PP#3

As soon as you give up lag pressure, you give up mass - you are 'bouncing' the club off impact, rather than 'supporting'.

This is true, hitting or swinging IMO, although you will feel it more directly in hitting.

Good post. Ok, futher exploring this....

Are you saying then, a clubhead moving at 100mph with no support behind it will not hit the ball as far as a clubhead traveling 100mph with support behind it? Support being - the club attached to a golfer who is maintaining lag pressure thoughout the swing.

[MBCpro]

Resistance to Impact deceleration.(2-E) Remember the ball hits the club just as hard as the club hits the ball. Newtons third law (2-C-0).
I also think we should study Newtons second law with this thread.
More resistance to impact deceleration could result in a slower swing speed hitting ball further than faster swing speed.

Todd

[EdZ]

Originally Posted by EdZ

There is a difference between clubhead lag, and true lag 'pressure'. Brian's shopping cart image is the best way to describe the difference. (see article on his site). In a nutshell, if you ran downhill pushing a shopping cart, lag 'pressure' is maintained by continuing to run faster than the cart - you are still providing a push - providing support. Now, you could run with the cart, and keep up with it, but not be ADDING any pressure - it would look like you are pushing it, but really you are just 'moving at the same pace'. Don't confuse clubhead lag (moving at the same pace, keeping that clubhead trailing) - with lag pressure (adding 'push' - adding support). In other words, if you can't keep up the speed to 'push the cart', you are going TOO FAST. Remember - slow and heavy, feel PP#3 As soon as you give up lag pressure, you give up mass - you are 'bouncing' the club off impact, rather than 'supporting'. This is true, hitting or swinging IMO, although you will feel it more directly in hitting.

Good post. Ok, futher exploring this....

Are you saying then, a clubhead moving at 100mph with no support behind it will not hit the ball as far as a clubhead traveling 100mph with support behind it? Support being - the club attached to a golfer who is maintaining lag pressure thoughout the swing.

Yes. Any amount of lag pressure represents mass, and any amount of mass will send the ball further than without that mass.

The kicker is that to get there, most people have to slow way down.

To feel like they are swinging 'in slow motion'.

Full swings, half tempo - 160 club to 100 yards

HEAVY club - driving downplane to both arms straight.

Taking a divot.

Split grip drills will let you feel both arms straight properly.

[Trig]

Yes. Any amount of lag pressure represents mass, and any amount of mass will send the ball further than without that mass.

The kicker is that to get there, most people have to slow way down.

To feel like they are swinging 'in slow motion'.

Full swings, half tempo - 160 club to 100 yards

HEAVY club - driving downplane to both arms straight.

Taking a divot.

Split grip drills will let you feel both arms straight properly.

Aha! So that is what Yoda meant when he told me increasing the "effective mass" is critical.

It makes sense to me, especially after thinking through the physics of it.

Good thread!

By the way, how does it help to hit your 160yd club 100yds? And how do you turn around and apply it to a full shot?