Left Wrist Positions

[whip]

its important to remember too, to not compare whats taught in the book and dianes pictures to the tour guys, they are doing a lot of stuff, the yellow book is always, ultimately, more 'correct'. the wrist like the right arm should not be fully released at impact otherwise you lose the full hammering power of the accumulator releasing its stored energy. If you search david toms however i have sort of explained his interesting technique which actually involves a fully uncocked left wrist at impact, a true left arm plane and the right forearm is actually not inline with the shaft (which by the way makes him a swinger def not a hitter...)but he is the exception...

[O.B.Left]

I know some guys are going to disagree with what I said above . Thats ok

So , Question :

Is it desirable to hold the Impact Hands condition (flat left /bent right) through to Finish? If yes , why? If the flat left is a product of Club Head Lag and this Lag has leaked away with the overtaking of the Hands by Clubhead , how do you maintain the Impact Hands condition? Im talking full swings here not sawed off swings where Finish is at Follow Through (which should have the IMpact hands still assembled).

[Daryl]

I know some guys are going to disagree with what I said above . Thats ok

So , Question :

Is it desirable to hold the Impact Hands condition (flat left /bent right) through to Finish? If yes , why? If the flat left is a product of Club Head Lag and this Lag has leaked away with the overtaking of the Hands by Clubhead , how do you maintain the Impact Hands condition? Im talking full swings here not sawed off swings where Finish is at Follow Through (which should have the IMpact hands still assembled).

The Flat Left Wrist is not a by-product of Clubhead Lag or Clubhead Trailing. Clubhead Trailing and Overtaking is in relation to Low-point and not the Fixed Right Forearm Flying Wedge around the Circle.

O.B,

No Force or Alignment exists to Bend the Left Wrist after Impact unless it's introduced before Impact. The WristCock (and Uncock) is a Vertical Motion. Bending the Left Wrist is a Horizontal Motion.

No Such thingy as an Over-swiveled Finish Swivel. IF the "Overtaking Motion" of the #3 Accumulator is abruptly stopped or weak or wasn't reached, then the Bent Left Wrist at Follow-through will occur. Most of the Time it's never reached. Players don't know of its existence or, just like the back-stroke, are unable to reach Impact with this procedure alone.

The "Law of the Flail" is law. This also means that an Arched Left Wrist should occur post Impact. The Left Wrist is Level and Vertical at Impact. The Clubhead dramatically slows while Un-Cocking from Level to UN-COCKED as/because the Left Wrist Rolls past the Vertical after Impact.

One Issue, "To Bend or Not to Bend", is that almost all Good Players use the Right Forearm Angle of Approach but/AND Add a little Swivel at Impact. They will Flatten their Right Wrist. Those who don't add Swivel to the Right Forearm Angle of Approach, will maintain a Bent Right Wrist at the Finish Swivel.

[Meditation]

A lot of players believe that. But, the Uncocking Left Wrist reaches its Maximum Speed Almost Instantly. So, what is the purpose of exaggerated Wrist Cock with a Bent Left Wrist?

The point of bringing things out of line is to create motion. Everyone can putt the ball quite straight, yet it wouldn't produce the power needed to play good golf.

With the back of the wrist inline with the wrist joint, one is only capable of producing about 45 degrees of motion without changing the configuration of the fingers. So whichever way you look at this, either you have an ineffective amount of motion or you have introduced a compensation.

A much better idea is to grip it in a way that allows one to wrap the fingers around the club and stay wrapped during motion; while also enabling the amount of motion needed.

[Daryl]

The point of bringing things out of line is to create motion. Everyone can putt the ball quite straight, yet it wouldn't produce the power needed to play good golf.

With the back of the wrist inline with the wrist joint, one is only capable of producing about 45 degrees of motion without changing the configuration of the fingers. So whichever way you look at this, either you have an ineffective amount of motion or you have introduced a compensation.

A much better idea is to grip it in a way that allows one to wrap the fingers around the club and stay wrapped during motion; while also enabling the amount of motion needed.

Interesting but:

The Wrist Cock occurs in a Vertical Plane of Motion when using a Flat or Bent Left Wrist. As always, we arrive at a Flat and Vertical-ish Left Wrist at Impact. I also occasionally enjoy an ample use of Bent Left Wrist at the End of the Backstroke.

However. The #2 Accumulator is named the "Velocity" Accumulator because the Clubhead moves from point A to point B faster from the #2 Accumulator than with any other Accumulator. It has very little to do with "Around the Circle" Clubhead Speed (10-2-B Grip).

CF Uncocks the Left Wrist and by "Extension" the Clubhead gains Ground Speed. Extension would be the same for both the Flat Uncocking Wrist and the Bent Uncocking Wrist considering both to be Level at Impact. I would assume that the Residual Velocity used by the #3 Accumulator (Throw-out) would be the same given that the Clubhead reaches its Max Speed from Uncocking almost as soon as its released. The #3 PP and Right Forearm guide the Secondary Lever around the Pulley.

Law of the Flail. The Left Wrist is "Flail-Like". It's held to gather with a bolt.

In fact, at Impact, the Left Wrist is Vertical and the Clubhead is traveling/Uncocking "Down-ward" and when the Left Wrist Rolls past Vertical, it's traveling to the Right as it moves from Level to Uncocked. Severe deceleration.

However, Jamie Sadlowski uses the 10-2-D Grip and his Left Wrist is "Totally Bent" at the Top of his Back-stroke. He Uncocks into the Ball. His Wedges are Aligned at 0 degrees and he swings (Clubshaft) on only the Plane of the Right Wrist Bend, The Right Forearm Flying Wedge. Amazing stuff. Look how he bends his Left Elbow to keep the #2 Accumulator on the Plane of the Right Forearm Wedge and thereby keeps the "Pulley" in addition to Uncocking. Homer said that he thinks that Acceleration is another velocity factor. If that's true, then this guy proves it. Jamie isn't only applying the residual Velocity of the #2 Accumulator, he's using all of the Velocity.

But, "Drive for show, putt for dough".

[Meditation]

Interesting but:

The Wrist Cock occurs in a Vertical Plane of Motion when using a Flat or Bent Left Wrist. As always, we arrive at a Flat and Vertical-ish Left Wrist at Impact. I also occasionally enjoy an ample use of Bent Left Wrist at the End of the Backstroke.

However. The #2 Accumulator is named the "Velocity" Accumulator because the Clubhead moves from point A to point B faster from the #2 Accumulator than with any other Accumulator. It has very little to do with "Around the Circle" Clubhead Speed (10-2-B Grip).

CF Uncocks the Left Wrist and by "Extension" the Clubhead gains Ground Speed. Extension would be the same for both the Flat Uncocking Wrist and the Bent Uncocking Wrist considering both to be Level at Impact. I would assume that the Residual Velocity used by the #3 Accumulator (Throw-out) would be the same given that the Clubhead reaches its Max Speed from Uncocking almost as soon as its released. The #3 PP and Right Forearm guide the Secondary Lever around the Pulley.

Law of the Flail. The Left Wrist is "Flail-Like". It's held to gather with a bolt.

In fact, at Impact, the Left Wrist is Vertical and the Clubhead is traveling/Uncocking "Down-ward" and when the Left Wrist Rolls past Vertical, it's traveling to the Right as it moves from Level to Uncocked. Severe deceleration.

However, Jamie Sadlowski uses the 10-2-D Grip and his Left Wrist is "Totally Bent" at the Top of his Back-stroke. He Uncocks into the Ball. His Wedges are Aligned at 0 degrees and he swings (Clubshaft) on only the Plane of the Right Wrist Bend, The Right Forearm Flying Wedge. Amazing stuff. Look how he bends his Left Elbow to keep the #2 Accumulator on the Plane of the Right Forearm Wedge and thereby keeps the "Pulley" in addition to Uncocking. Homer said that he thinks that Acceleration is another velocity factor. If that's true, then this guy proves it. Jamie isn't only applying the residual Velocity of the #2 Accumulator, he's using all of the Velocity.

But, "Drive for show, putt for dough".

Thanks for sharing your/Homer Kelley's thoughts but none of this is relevant to our discussion.

Let me explain. The initial assertion was that the wrist motion should not be made with the back of the left hand with an inline relationship to the left wrist joint. I'm arguing that it shouldn't. You're arguing that it should. Keep with the conversation.

If you go line by line through your post, you will find nothing directly related to what we're talking about.

Try to respond to the post again or concede the assertion.

[Daryl]

Thanks for sharing your/Homer Kelley's thoughts but none of this is relevant to our discussion.

Let me explain. The initial assertion was that the wrist motion should not be made with the back of the left hand with an inline relationship to the left wrist joint. I'm arguing that it shouldn't. You're arguing that it should. Keep with the conversation.

If you go line by line through your post, you will find nothing directly related to what we're talking about.

Try to respond to the post again or concede the assertion.

Concede the assertion? Are you Serious?

My example is precisely the point. The #3 Accumulator, 4 and 1, and "Residual #2 momentum" converts the Arm and Pivot rotation into Clubhead Speed. Cocking the Left Wrist has a Primary Purpose. It allows the Pivot to gain significant Rotational Speed very quickly. Uncocking the Left Wrist "Slows" the Pivot.

My argument, is that your assertion is irrelevant. CF Uncocks the Left Wrist whether its Bent, Arched or Flat. It's Important that the Wrist be Somewhat Vertical at Impact and the Left Wrist is Level.

Why would it matter how much the Left Wrist is Cocked or how Flat or Bent the Left Wrist Alignment during the Back-stroke considering any of the following 3 points:

1. Cocking the Wrist 18 inches or 36 inches is irrelevant because the Clubhead reaches its maximum speed within 12 inches during the Uncocking process.
   
2. Having a Bent Left Wrist during any part of the stroke is irrelevant because it's Aligned Somewhat Flat and Somewhat Vertical at Impact unless you use a 10-2-D grip. Therefore, the direction of Uncocking is into the Ground and when the Left Wrist passes Vertical, significant deceleration occurs. "Law of the Flail"
   
3. All Uncocking motion is downward, not "Forward" (unless you use a 10-2-D grip) at impact if one uses a flat and Vertical or Somewhat Flat and Vertical left wrist, regardless of preceding wrist conditions. Because of this, only residual clubhead speed from the #2 accumulator contributes to Forward motion around the Circle. Flat or somewhat Flat or Bent or somewhat Bent During the Backstroke or Downstroke is irrelevant.

You can choose to ignore each of the above 3 points. You can pretend they aren't true and you can keep believing that Uncocking the Left Wrist is the same mechanism that struck the golf ball. So, you may as well believe that CF is used to strike the ball.

Homer Kelley states that it's important to have the same Wrist Alignments through Impact that were established at Impact Fix. What happens to Wrist Conditions prior to Impact are irrelevant.

THE GATEWAY

4-D-1 THE FLAT LEFT WRIST This section is included to stress the importance of the Flat Left Wrist during Impact. Study 2-P and 10-18-B. “Flat Left Wrist” and “Grip” refer to the Strong Single Action Grip Type 10-2-B. This is highly dependable visual check for compliance with the Law of The Flail (2-K). Carefully study 3-F-7.

A Double Wristcock (10-18-B) is the Bending of the Left Wrist at the Top of the Stroke in addition to the Wristcock. All Wrist positions and motion may remain correct until the Release, where, for a variety of misconceptions the Right Wrist is allowed to Flatten. Any loss in Impact Fix Right Wrist Bend during Release immediately becomes Left Wrist Bend – Clubhead Throwaway. Which starts the Club swinging form the Wrists – in an “inside” and “upward” motion – the Clubface is rapidly Closing and the Clubshaft becomes “in-line” with the Right Forearm instead of the Left Arm.

[O.B.Left]

D, Re 4-D-1

Flat is not "flat" necessarily . And not everywhere in the swing. Around impact or fix yes given a 10-2-B or weaker it will appear flatish. Take special note of how Homer says "Flat Left During impact" . Impact . Not Finish or Finish Swivel or Top . Further more notice how Homer "Any loss of Impact Fix Right Wrist Bend during Release immediately becomes Left Wris tBend -Clubhead Throwaway . " Release ! No not Finish Swivel or Finish.


My assertion is that a 10-2-B grip is not literally , visually flat at Fix. Its close, but not quite. Any degree of left wrist bend present at Fix should be present at Top . Easiest way to do this .... freeze the right hand bend once Impact Hands are formed .... at address or in startup for those that start from adjusted. Then post Finish Swivel its a return to Adjusted Hands .. Bent left / Flat Right . I have had the lesson , done the research and this is what our host teaches IMO. I like it . It works.

Furthermore an arched left wrist post impact Hogan style is a product of Horizontal wrist motion unless...... you have a super week left hand grip type to begin with , as Hogan did. Try it out , grip it weak in the left hand and whilst keeping the face square add some shaft lean , lots of it. Now try a 10-2-D grip , you can add a ton of shaft lean without any arching required!!!!!!

D your "arched left post impact" smacks of position golf to me ! How dare thee! Its grip type dependant !

PS How in the absence of club head Lag can one maintain a flat left ? I submit that the flat left is a by product , not a thing one should attempt to manipulate .

[O.B.Left]

Basically , simply put what Im saying is :

What ever left hand grip you have cooked up at Fix , however bent it looks, it is Flat ! Capital F. Flat though it might not be "flat" , visually flat to ones eye.

And ..... Impact Swivel and Finish see a return to Adjusted Bent Left / Flat Right .

Come and get me if you want but that is what I believe. I know some dont ... thats ok . Different strokes for different folks. Im talking free flowing , free wheeling here not a hold off, or hold on to right wrist bend forever method , or or or ... Not saying you cant play well like that you can . Tiger might be trying it out right now. Just talking free wheeling , flail action , swinging .

[Daryl]

D, Re 4-D-1

Flat is not "flat" necessarily . And not everywhere in the swing. Around impact or fix yes given a 10-2-B or weaker it will appear flatish. Take special note of how Homer says "Flat Left During impact" . Impact . Not Finish or Finish Swivel or Top . Further more notice how Homer "Any loss of Impact Fix Right Wrist Bend during Release immediately becomes Left Wris tBend -Clubhead Throwaway . " Release ! No not Finish Swivel or Finish.


My assertion is that a 10-2-B grip is not literally , visually flat at Fix. Its close, but not quite. Any degree of left wrist bend present at Fix should be present at Top . Easiest way to do this .... freeze the right hand bend once Impact Hands are formed .... at address or in startup for those that start from adjusted. Then post Finish Swivel its a return to Adjusted Hands .. Bent left / Flat Right . I have had the lesson , done the research and this is what our host teaches IMO. I like it . It works.

Furthermore an arched left wrist post impact Hogan style is a product of Horizontal wrist motion unless...... you have a super week left hand grip type to begin with , as Hogan did. Try it out , grip it weak in the left hand and whilst keeping the face square add some shaft lean , lots of it. Now try a 10-2-D grip , you can add a ton of shaft lean without any arching required!!!!!!

D your "arched left post impact" smacks of position golf to me ! How dare thee! Its grip type dependant !

PS How in the absence of club head Lag can one maintain a flat left ? I submit that the flat left is a by product , not a thing one should attempt to manipulate .

First, I agree. The Primary Lever can include a somewhat Bent Left Wrist as long as it isn't Bending.

Arched Left Wrist: I haven't done this millions of times but I have done it thousands and thousands by experimentation and playing. With the Flying Wedges Aligned at 90 degrees, the 10-2-B Grip results. They're synonymous.

When the Right Forearm Drives toward its Angle of Approach to Low-Point, the Uncocking Left Wrist truly performs like a Flail that's "Bolted" together. At Impact, it's traveling Down into the Ground and as soon as the Wrist "Rolls" past Vertical, the Left Wrist (given a Level Wrist at Impact) continues to Uncock until fully Uncocked. Just for fun, Roll your stationary Left Wrist and move from Level to Uncocked. It's "Practically" moving in reverse (at 100 MPH). However, the Right Forearm remains Driving Forward to Both Arms Straight. This Arches the Left Wrist. I can't prevent it. I have found that If the back of the Left Wrist, at Impact Fix, Faces the Angle of Approach rather than Aligning it Vertical, that the Arching is lessened.

Flat Left Wrist: I agree. It's a by-product. A great By-Product. No need to try to keep it Flat, it wouldn't happen no matter how much effort you use. You simply must stop treating the Uncocking process as forward momentum and start using the #3 PP to sense Lag and Drag it through Impact. One can keep it Flat without the #3 PP, and that would be a very good swing.