Compression?

[KevCarter]

"Heavy Hit" is very good "Advice". There's "Why?" and there's "How To?". "Heavy Hit" is "How To".

Hmm? The "Science" doesn't belong to anyone.



Homer Kelley explained the Collision dynamics between the Clubface and Ball. He further explained why different collisions result in different Ball Flights. Then he explained the "Perfect Collision" and How we as Golfers can achieve it.

How "more complete" can anyone get than that?

GREAT answers, thanks Daryl!

Kevin

[BerntR]

Homer Kelley explained the Collision dynamics between the Clubface and Ball. He further explained why different collisions result in different Ball Flights. Then he explained the "Perfect Collision" and How we as Golfers can achieve it.

How "more complete" can anyone get than that?

The answer is "a lot" if you ask the right questions. Whether it will make you wiser or a better golfer is another question.

John is thinking and asking like a researcher here. I like it.

And I enjoy all the efforts to produce a satisfactory response too.

The best questions aren't the ones who are answered 100% right away. The best questions are those who challenges our current knowledge and triggers knowledge creation. So what's there to be frustrated about? Take a break and watch the show when you run out of answers.

This thread has made me think a lot more about the impact interval and what really happens.

I think I got it reasonably well covered before and after impact, but while the ball and clubface has contact:

How disturbing is the mass & inertia of the ball really?
What does the mass of the shaft mean?
How does stiffness and flex characteristics of the shaft influence inmpact?
How does the pressure point alignments and the hands motion influence impact?
And not least: How does impact affect the stroke for the 0.5 ms period?

I've started to think of it as a stroke within a stroke, and since I'm a TGM guy I am as interested in what the hands do as what the club head does. I wonder what kind of stroke pattern we see there, during the 0.5ms interval.

During the stroke, the clubhead collides with molecules in the air, which creates some swing resistance. What happens when the ball gets in the way is a sudden increase in this resistance. A big discontinuity. I don't think pretending that the ball isn't there is the way to go. Not for the skilled golfer anyway.

But we have a few middle grounds too: From air to rough, from air to bunker sand, from air to water.

To pop a few lab questions:

1) What would the compensation free hit of swing look like under water, where the swing resistance would be significantly higher at all times, but all other conditions would be the same? What would be the similarities and differences with an air stroke?

2)How is the stroke disturbed by a transition from a low resistance condition to a high resistance condition? For instance from air to water, from air to rough, from air to sand. And from air to ball. And how can we best deal with this discontinuity?

[Daryl]

John, let's try to understand each other. We have common ground. We both enjoy the world of Golf and we both want to learn and understand Swing Mechanics. We also enjoy talking to others with the same interests.

This forum is not the place for combativeness and the owner and managers have explicitly expressed those concerns.

We, me and many others, challenge ourselves each time we open the "Yellow Book". But when questions are framed in a "Challenge" it's annoying. We're "Students" of the game. Getting challenged on what we've learned and material we haven't learned is like "Pop Quiz". I don't want to be tested. I don't want to have every word I say dissected and analyzed. I create illustrations while trying to understand the material. The material is difficult to understand. Harder to comprehend the significance of it. I post the Illustrations showing my understanding of the material. Nothing more or Less.

We joined and participate in this Forum to "Discuss" our favorite topic. What's on my mind today isn't on yours. But we engage in discussion to share what we know and learn what other know. We don't get "Spoon Fed". The only way to learn is by studying and discussing.

I'm open to other ideas. I understand that some people want to "pull down with their left arm" from the Top. I also understand that some people want to "Push off with their Right Leg during the Downswing".

There are a lot of "Professionals" that visit this site on a regular basis. Double that number of Professionals that read the site regularly but don't participate. LBG.com has earned a reputation of fair and open discussion.

I'm thinking out loud.

[HungryBear]

..............


To pop a few lab questions:

1) What would the compensation free hit of swing look like under water, where the swing resistance would be significantly higher at all times, but all other conditions would be the same? What would be the similarities and differences with an air stroke?

2)How is the stroke disturbed by a transition from a low resistance condition to a high resistance condition? For instance from air to water, from air to rough, from air to sand. And from air to ball. And how can we best deal with this discontinuity?

In spite of the fact that I woke up in a silly temprement:

Answers

1. Got to ask Alan Shepard- He has the best data???

2. Avoid then compensate - then apply Snell's law

Sorry - couldn't resist

The Bear

[Yoda]

Each of these pictures clarly show the ball getting carried downward and to the right from impact to seperation.

That would mean the ball would get pinched between the turf and the face.

When an inclined striker does that from a solid strike, it will be a fantastic picture indeed.

I look forward to seeing it.

Okay, John, you have not responded to my post #71 seeking confirmation of the "pictures" you are referencing. Forging ahead, I assume (per my post) that you mean Sketches 2-C-1/2/3.



By the way, that was my fifth post written directly in response to one of your own and also the fifth one with zero reply from you. Mox nix to me, but I find it kind of interesting, especially given your insistence that people respond to yours "or else" you begin to wonder (your post #55).



Two points:

1. Look closely at Sketch #1 in each of the Series, i.e., 2-C-1 #1, 2-C-2 #1 and 2-C-3 #1. You will notice that the ball is sitting on a tee, and Low Point is clearly illustrated as occurring 'in the air'. Therefore, as specifically related to these drawings, there is no contact with the ground whatsoever, much less any "pinch" effect (which, of course, doesn't happen anyway, even with the ball on the ground).

2. In 2-C-1 and 2-C-2, your observation that the ball is being carried "downward and to the right" (On Plane) is correct. However, Sketch 2-C-3 illustrates the Lob Shot being executed as a deliberate Throwaway procedure. Hence, it is being carried neither downward nor to the right.

"Precision is recognizing and reconciling minute differentiations." [2-0]

I have several other comments -- actually, a comprehensive overview -- relating to the Sketches, their purpose and the precision depiction of the illustrated concepts. In it you will find the answers to a few of your earlier questions (and more). I will get to that task as time permits.

[O.B.Left]

I personally find this discussion to be very informative and welcome (well intentioned) questions "of all kinds".

[JerryG]

Me too, but just as "Heavy Hit" is mentioned here and many other places in LBGF as well as throughout the book, I just don't seem to get the hang of it. Heavy Hit has me bamboozled.
The forward leaning shaft and the face contact with the ball resulting in compression--I get. It feels great. It is highly addictive and winter is going to be tough. But Heavy Hit may be my next exploration.
Sorry to threadjack, if that is indeed what I just did, but I would love to either see a response from anyone or a reference to somewhere for me to look further.
Regards to all and thanks for your service, Vets.

[KevCarter]

Me too, but just as "Heavy Hit" is mentioned here and many other places in LBGF as well as throughout the book, I just don't seem to get the hang of it. Heavy Hit has me bamboozled.
The forward leaning shaft and the face contact with the ball resulting in compression--I get. It feels great. It is highly addictive and winter is going to be tough. But Heavy Hit may be my next exploration.
Sorry to threadjack, if that is indeed what I just did, but I would love to either see a response from anyone or a reference to somewhere for me to look further.
Regards to all and thanks for your service, Vets.

You have it and just don't know it. It's that great feeling of compression when you have a forward leaning shaft and lag pressure!



Kevin

[JerryG]

Oh sure, easy for you to state. Now I suppose I am going to have to head out to Anoka for another discussion and have this pointed out over a cup of coffee.
Remember, I am a bit obtuse.

You have it and just don't know it. It's that great feeling of compression when you have a forward leaning shaft and lag pressure!



Kevin

[KevCarter]

Oh sure, easy for you to state. Now I suppose I am going to have to head out to Anoka for another discussion and have this pointed out over a cup of coffee.
Remember, I am a bit obtuse.

LOL

Come on over this weekend. I'll be in the shop all by myself watching it snow. I'll be here from 9-3. Bring plain coffee with lots of caffeine and cream, and I never refuse a donut!

Kevin