Question about plane

[O.B.Left]

What's missing thus far is Impact Fix.

For ndwolfe who is not TGM conversant, Impact Fix is a dress rehearsal for Impact done between Preliminary Address where you're getting ready for the shot (club selection, wind analysis, trajectory, target, practice swing), and Address with its adjustments for where you intend to start up including any waggles and forward press, usually with hands mid-body.

Key to this discussion is the right forearm on-plane with the shaft at impact. That's where we intend to return everything at the moment of truth.

Impact Fix sees the body in relatively open conditions, although the hands are still mid-body as the mid-body has shifted from where it would be at standard Address, the head height is lower, the right shoulder is lower for impact, precise amount of impact knee bend determined and impact foot loading. The grip is taken here with the clubshaft at an angle according to its lie angle and built-in clubshaft forward lean, the clubface open, square or closed according to planned hinge action to be used, trajectory and length of shot, the left wrist flat, level and vertical, the right wrist bent, level and vertical and extensor action is applied. Thus, the Flying Wedges are assembled, which is Daryl's Power Package Structure. It is this structure we want to recreate into impact reqardless of plane angle shifts, and to where the right forearm must return. The Machine is designed to do precisely that. Think full-body participation Forward Press.

Depending on how far you stand from the ball, the amount of waist bend and knee bend, the degrees of openness of the hips and shoulders, acquired axis tilt and right shoulder height at impact, it's possible to have everything lined up with the turned shoulder plane and take it away and return it precisely there with zero plane shift. The right forearm can not get on plane until the elbow does, but that does not dictate swinging on an elbow plane. It's the hands that go up and down the plane on their delivery path, and the right forearm is thrown or driven out into impact.

Hitters especially prefer to use this position as Address for startup.
Swingers adjust back to mid-body address, squaring everything except the clubface, but it's advantageous to retain head height determined at Impact Fix, and right knee bend. The hands typically are lower but need not be, the left wrist has gone bent with the right wrist now flat. From there the Power Package has to be re-assembled in the backswing, but the swinger can drag it away from here better and the #3 pressure point is in a better location for tracing the plane line (proximal phalanx of the right index finger).
Either pattern uses Right Forearm Takeaway tracing the delivery line. Hitters carry it away, swingers drag it away.

The impact fix amount of right wrist bend, and the flat left wrist will be correctly re-created with a swivel (turn) of the left wrist onto plane somewhere in the backswing with the swinger's standard wrist action. The Flying Wedges are thus assembled and it is that fixed amount of right wrist bend that should be maintained into the impact area.

Quickly posting without much editing, a memory dump, getting ready to duck the bullets, probably in re "everything lined up on the TSP".
Hope ndwolfe gets something out of it if he's still around after all this. And hope there's nothing too misleading in here for him. There are still a few terms needing definition, Level for instance, the Flying Wedges, hinge action, delivery line. How much precision do you want? All that's possible.

No bullets from me Loren. I like a good memory dump post every once in while.

If I may, Id add that the prime benefit of the mid body hands, Adjusted Address is the ability to employ a lagging takeaway from that position, Hogan style. Depending on how much the clubhead lags the pressure points (hands) going back in Startup (shot, club length personal preference dependent) the Impact Hands condition of Impact Fix (flat left , bent right) can be reassembled before the left wrist swivels onto the Inclined Plane. Yoda with an iron for instance seems to get it done about the time his hands are over his rigth thigh via CF and Standard Wrist Action Id say. ("From here your hands are done for the day", he said to me once). Hogan with a driver, anyways, gets them reassembled a little later.

Lagging Takeaway has such an amazing feel to it. Like the club is swinging very early or a rock on the end of string. I use it Swinging or Hitting for full shots, call me crazy. Give up control to gain control etc. It works nicely with Float Loading.

ndwolfe I bet, has left the building. Probably moved over to another forum, where things appear to be black and white. All of this relates to Homers assertion that there is no one best way. In cataloguing all of the ways he created some frustrated readers for sure but........ we always knew the truth to this the craziest of games would never be simple. Didnt we?

[O.B.Left]

BEAUTIFUL . . . look at how the right arm and the right shoulder move . . . no bobbing . . . awesome . . . can you put up the next two frames?

I'm going to challenge you on that plane line compliance being of primary importance though . . . disruption in the #3 angle/plane angle shifting CAN have HUGE implications on the face vector AND the rate at which the face rotates about the sweetspot . . .





See anything here that would cause that big ole shift out to the right?

Ok, #3, plane and clubface angle, that makes sense. That magnetic face thing really blew your mind eh? I remember someone saying that when the ball is way above your feet your clubface has more "left" than "loft". I really just meant that Id take tracing, given a shift or two over a shiftless swing without plane line compliance. There are a lot of whacky swings on tv that work wonderfully. Im thinking its good Line of Compression management despite plane angle variations or off plane meanderings. But your point is a good one, they must manage the plane through the impact interval as well.


Id say Hogan looks like he is Horizontal Hinging to my eye. While Graham is beyond horizontal. Over rolling, swivelling through impact or whatever. Hogan is employing a Hinge Action, clubface control. Graham is not. As a side note some of Graham's hang back might be an angle of attack deal given the launch characteristics of the persimmon drivers back then. Those things needed a lot of help to get the ball in the air. But yah, his head has swayed way back, my back hurts just looking at it. Maybe he should have tried teeing the ball more forward and higher?

Here is more of Hogan from the Magic Swing video, Mexico, 1953. Hard to freeze the correct frames. The camera is off angle I think, if that is his shag "person" /target in the back ground. If so his foot line is closed which wasnt unusual for him for a longer shot. He is almost back on his original plane angle in frame 3, Downswing. His plane angle is dropping fast.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=125451343 5

[O.B.Left]

I shot some still bursts with my Casio of Hogan in transition. Watch his right shoulder here, the TSP, what appears to be a slight shift in transition, longitudinal acceleration, drag loading, some top of the shaft bending too along the line of the #3 at the knuckle. Its all here at Homers "cross roads".

You'll need to save them to a file on you computer and then click on them individually to turn them into a movie like animation to see whats really going on.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=125451808 7

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=125451814 9

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=125451819 4

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=125451824 7

[O.B.Left]

Some Yoda posts from my files.



http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=125451999 4

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=125452023 6

[12 piece bucket]

Those are some beautiful pictures . . . thanks for posting . . . any face on stuff available?

[Daryl]

This is a good example of a Rotated Shoulder Turned and Clubshaft and Hands on the Elbow Plane. His Right Forearm is significantly “Off” Plane while his Right Elbow is “On” Plane. In order for His Hands to continue down the Plane of his Clubshaft, Hogan must Unbend (lengthen) his Right Arm else, his Hands will come in above the Plane.

So, its very easy to have your Clubshaft on one plane, your hands on the same plane, your Right Elbow on the same Plane but your Right Forearm OFF Plane.

The reality of this Elbow Plane tragedy is that his hands should be about 3 inches further down the Red Plain Line so that his Right Forearm can be On Plane. If you want to Swing on the Elbow Plane, AND, have your Hands, Clubshaft, Right Elbow and RIGHT FOREARM on the same plane, you need a really short stroke.

Furthermore, Hogan Cannot Trace the same Plane line until his Hands reach Release when his Right Forearm becomes On Plane. You CANNOT Unbend the Right Elbow while Tracing the Plane Line with THE RIGHT FOREARM FLYING WEDGE.

[mb6606]

Is it rotated sp or appears that way when using short irons and stance close to the ball?

[O.B.Left]

Yup it does appear to be a Rotated turn in that it is more perpendicular to his spine angle here, but Rotated can locate the Turned Shoulder Plane after all, per 10-13-C. So Id say he is Rotated shoulder turn going back then On Plane on the down stroke.

Great question as to whether this is a short iron thing for Hogan, I looked at a driver swing and he still appear Rotated and then On Plane to my eye but Hogan did stand in a very erect posture ,maybe given his height perhaps and so his version of Rotated is still pretty darn Flat.

[O.B.Left]

Those are some beautiful pictures . . . thanks for posting . . . any face on stuff available?

I had those on file but Im planning to get the camera and tripod out today and will shoot some more bursts, 40 frames per second bursts of stills on a Casio.

What caught my eye with those ones was the movement in his elbow in Stardown. Like a pitcher leading with his elbow sort of, but upon closer inspection I realized it wasnt an independent elbow thing of course but his Right Shoulder moving down plane and taking the bent right elbow with it. Yoda would say something like "and you spin, spin, spin, the flywheel" maybe, perhaps, kinda sorta.

[O.B.Left]

This is a good example of a Rotated Shoulder Turned and Clubshaft and Hands on the Elbow Plane. His Right Forearm is significantly “Off” Plane while his Right Elbow is “On” Plane. In order for His Hands to continue down the Plane of his Clubshaft, Hogan must Unbend (lengthen) his Right Arm else, his Hands will come in above the Plane.

So, its very easy to have your Clubshaft on one plane, your hands on the same plane, your Right Elbow on the same Plane but your Right Forearm OFF Plane.

The reality of this Elbow Plane tragedy is that his hands should be about 3 inches further down the Red Plain Line so that his Right Forearm can be On Plane. If you want to Swing on the Elbow Plane, AND, have your Hands, Clubshaft, Right Elbow and RIGHT FOREARM on the same plane, you need a really short stroke.

Furthermore, Hogan Cannot Trace the same Plane line until his Hands reach Release when his Right Forearm becomes On Plane. You CANNOT Unbend the Right Elbow while Tracing the Plane Line with THE RIGHT FOREARM FLYING WEDGE.

D, I love ya but I think there is some stuff here that is just "plane" confusing for me. I know that is not out of the norm for me, but lets talk about which "plane" you are referring to here.

I'd say the Right Forearm, indeed the entire RFFW ideally stays "on plane", so to speak, throughout the entire swing. But this is the plane of the Right Wrist Bend not to be confused with The Inclined Plane which the right forearm rides sometimes through impact say, but not always. So at top the RFFW is not on the Inclined Plane in Total Motion. Chipping maybe. See 6-B-3-0-1.

On the other hand, Per 10-6-0. The Inclined Plane, Basic Plane Angles, clubshaft control; "Basic Plane Angles are classified according to reference points on which the Inclined Plane can be set". May I add that I believe this to mean at Address for the elbow plane, Top for the Turned Shoulder plane. Meaning if Homer set his plane board to a fixed angle that referenced the Elbow, (the Elbow Plane) the entire Right Forearm , including the elbow and the clubshaft would lay on this fixed plane angle at Address, only. Once you reach Top or End the right Elbow moves under the Inclined Plane, "Elbow Plane". see photos 10-6-A 1 and 2.

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding your post , I can be totally vapidiculous sometimes.