[BerntR]

I really think this swinging vs hitting is one of the weak points in TGM.

I do agree that most Hitters have some pulling going on, Bernt. But not necessarily all of them. And so , I think to be perfectly accurate you'd have to change the "is" to "can be" in your statement above.

I really mean "is". For anyone who has hopes of breaking 200 on a par 72 course. But show me a hitter who doesnt rotate his left shoulder. Or a hitter who has so little drag that he really doesn't need his left arm ..... but I don't think you can.

Drive Loading is Pushing and Drag Loading is Pulling and thats all. To paraphrase Homer Kelley. Axe handle vs Rope Handle , Radial vs Longitudinal.

The drive loading from top certainly has a lot of drag (pull) during transition for a proper release. I assume that you have a lot of #2 angle at the top....

If you go by a rope handle procedure you still have to do some pushing to create a circular motion. If all you do is pull, you will not wag the dog. You will only walk the dog. In the purest of TSP swings - perhaps even without extencior action, PP#4 will get things started. Wen you rotate the left shoulder, pp#4 will push the primary lever until CF throwout takes over. Then you can "drive it home" with pure rope handling. If all you had was a rotating left shoulder you would never get the action started.

Same thing with the drive loading, basically. A push doesn't make up for a curving motion.

As for axe handling I recommend that you consult your left hand and arm. Do you not feel any pull there at all?

It takes torque to produce a circular motion. A torque is like a simultanous push and pull. A human golfing machine pulls with the left side and pushes with the right, hitting or swinging.

Homer was careful to make the distinction between Drive vs Drag in his "bare bones" identification of the alternate Basic Patterns of 12-1 and 12-2. He didn't label them Hitting and Swinging, after all.

I agree, and I think that was wisely done by Homer. But you can driveload and drag. Or dragload and push. If you go into the nitty gritty of TGM swing with PP#4 and extencior action there's pushing involved.

Drive vs drag: One can be more active than the other. But you need both to create a circular path. None of them is able to produce a swing like motin on their own.

I never have, never will, seen a good hitter without a proper pivot turn, including a proper drag that lasts until well past impact.

12-1 isnt the only way to Hit but its the bare boned fundamental , Push only place to start. A place from which to graduate and build upon or a place to happily stay forever. Its up to you. There's nothing wrong with 12-1 somewhat rare though it is. Homer thought we'd all become Drive Loading enthusiasts actually. He loved it that much.

I do both, and based on what you describe about your own stroke we're doing something similar. When I am at my best (which isn't very often and relly not that good when it comes to it), I have a sort of race condition between the dragging and the driving where I can vary the composition depending on what I want to do with the ball.

Today I hit a ruler straight knock down with my sand wedge into 2 club wind. Without any sign of draw. It was the sweetest shot I've hit for years and I converted the birdie

Hitting it low requires hands forward and a lot of drive loading. And usually produces a strong draw or a hook on my behalf. But this time i managed to counterbalance the punch with some extra dragging through impact.

Most of us dont give it enough of a chance maybe. Perhaps its hard to turn off all the pulling we've been doing previously. Perhaps its the pivot centric golf magazines or the effects of acid rain? I dont know.

I play regularly with a double digit handicapper who really struggles to get his pivot through the shots. He wants to imrpove and works diligently on his stroke. But as long as he quits with his lower body he will never get a consistent stroke. He disconnects with his lower body and often he looses the feel of the club weight in his left hand. He is about 5 inches taller than me and much bigger and stronger. But still I regularly outdrive him with 50-100 yards. Today - for the first time - I somehow managed to convince him to really crank his pivot through the shot and continue to a full finish. He gained some 30-40 yards on his drives even though there was still a lot of compensation involved in getting the clubhead and club face on the vincinity of the right path. And I think for the first time he really could sens what it means to hit the ball hard. We had a really good time because of this.

I'm all for pivot centric approaches. But the pivot isn't just about the left side. When it works properly it pushes and pulls.

There is an account of Homer on a driving range , asking an early A.I. to show him Hitting. When the man took it past Top to End Homer stopped him and insisted that he stop at Top........this was something that puzzled me as I always go to End when I hit. I've since concluded that Homer wasnt looking for just any Hitting pattern but rather he was expecting 12-1. Drive Loading.

I havent' listened to those Homer tapes. Would love to if you care to share.

I think HK expects a hitter to start from the top, taking dead aim with pp#3. No pressure point rotation. When you use pressure point rotation I think it becomes 4 barrel swing (?). And if you don't, but do the pp#4 blast it becomes a 4 barrel hit (?) Please correct me if I've got this wrong.

He did expect his A.I.s to teach 12-1 after all not just gloss over it. And in that case , Drive Loading from End is not a good idea as you have to wait for your Hands to get back to Top, on the top of the straight line Delivery Path before they can start to Drive. They need a clear straight line shot at the Aiming Point. Its a beautiful and simple pattern.

Some of the difference that is different - or so I think - is that when you swing, you swing your primary lever with your shoulder. You use dead hands and after transition the shoulder turn and CF keep your hands where your shoulder turn gives you max leverage.

When you hit, you still swing with you shoulders, but you also swing your primary lever around your left shoulder. You delegate some of the swingers' pivot work to the right arm. But you need a proper pivot action as a basis to be sucessful with the TGM hitting.

A lot of people enters LBG to find a way to improve their game. Some of them turns towards hitting because they haven't learned how to use their pivot properly. And here on LBG they get the message that swinging is drag loading and pivot orientet, while hitting is a thrust with the right arm. Which is probably what 50% tries to do initially. So they get the impression (perhaps) that they can learn to play golf without developing a proper pivot and without developing proper fundamentals.

When the role of the pivot and dragging is so underplayed in the hitting pattern description they get the impression that they can learn to strike the golf ball by using the right tricep only. While I may be exaggerating here, there's certainly more than a little truth in it.

Dragging and driving is yin and yang in golf. You can perhaps emphasize one over the other, but you still need the other to make your choosen one work.

If I recall correct, Homer recommended to learn swinging before trying hitting. I totally agree. I actually regard hitting or any other form of drive loading as a refinement and adjustment to an already functioning basic swing motion.

And I love to watch videos of Yoda hitting the ball. The man has a great looking stroke. What he does with his right tricep has very little to do with why it looks so good to me. What he does with his feet, hips, torso and shoulders have everything to to with it. The signatur of his stroke looks almost similar when he's swinging and it takes a really trained eye to spot the difference. I think that says a lot about the similarities between the two patterns.