Role of the Right Shoulder

[bambam]

That thought alone could help a lot of folks!

I know you're a big believer in the importance of balance, Ed, and I've appreciated your posts on the topic. One of the things that I didn't really get when people talked about balance was that good balance doesn't equal not falling over

I've played lots of different sports and have "good balance" in that I have always felt stable and balanced during my swing - hard/soft swing, straight/bent plane, etc... However, I do not have very good "golf balance" (getting better). When my weight shifts where it shouldn't (usually my toes), my body automatically compensates; I feel stable, hit the ball and don't fall on my face, but the results aren't always good.

Another flaw Edz likes to talk about is the "lift and roll" takeaway/backswing. When I do that I tend to never clear my right hip and then get in a laid off position at the top. good balance, tracing, etc.. is all pretty tough from there.

[drewitgolf]

You take your stance at the with your driver. Then take the driver and place it across your shoulders with the grip toward the target flush with your left shoulder and the head out the back (about two feet sticking out the back). Then you backswing to the top and on the downswing, try to hit the ball with the head of the driver (which you can't of course). This will give you immediate feel of getting the right shoulder down on plane. If you have not been doing this then it will feel quite different.

This single drill got me to focus on my right shoulder and I can now feel immediately when I am not down on plane with my right shoulder. I took film after this drill and the difference is quite startling.

I like this Chris . Never thought of adding the Clubhead to this drill. I always used just a shaft across the shoulders to demonstrate going down the Turned Shoulder Plane. Glad it worked for you. I will incorporate this into my lesson programs. Now, I can raise my lesson rates .

[kmmcnabb]

You may have to pay Martin Hall some pennies.

I saw him doing the drill on TGC at about 3 in the morning. Usually I don't like (or do) drills but I gave it a try and found the downswing plane for the first time (for me anyway).

Since discovering it, I have used it with students at First Tee and it works great for them too. The only problem is that their flexibility allows them to come under plane a bit.

Have fun.

Kevin

[rogerdodger]

Thanks for the ideas BamBam. The off the world pull-hook is a major problem of mine, I hit a house across a major two lane road here in Minneapolis last week. Whenever I try to put some power in a shot, the right hip flys out. I like your suggestions and will try all of them.

[kmmcnabb]

Also, this works great with a Momentus Power Hitter driver (my wife got me one for father's day. It works even better with the additional weight.

k

[golfbulldog]

I have been looking at the photos of Hogan's swing in "power Golf", specifically at the degree of downswing shoulder rotation and "downness" of the right shoulder.

My basic assumption/knowledge for swingers is :-

Rotation of shoulders leads to start of throw out action

Delay throw out action by "moving in a straight line"

Secondary axis tilt provides straight line motion and delays throw out.


Now based on that I have studied the face on photos of Hogan and was surprised that his downswing begins with quite alot of shoulder rotation combined withlateral weight shift to left.

See his "end" position

Shoulder turn is about 110 degrees - John Daly style

See his "Downswing hands mid chest location"

Shoulder turn is about 30 degrees and shoulders are level.

ie. lots of rotation of shoulders for not much "downness" of right shoulder down plane

His hands have moved about 30 inches.


Now look at pictures through to impact

The shoulders complete the last 30-40 degrees of rotation but right shoulder goes much more down and more obvious tilt.

What I am leading to is a discussion of when does axis tilt occur. Hogan seems to have a definite rotation of about 70 degress on downswing before much right shoulder down plane action and tilt occurs.

Is this early ( relative to tilting) shoulder rotation the way that a swinger goes from "end " to the "top" of his straight line delivery path??

Is downswing shoulder rotation needed for "top arc" and secondary axis tilt needed for "straight line delivery "??

Do these observations seem true to you. I know that if I try to tilt too soon on downswing my weight never really shifts to the left and my right shoulder is in an impact degree of "downess" ( relative to Hogan) but my hands are still mid-chest.

Thanks for any thoughts...

[Daryl]

Do these observations seem true to you. I know that if I try to tilt too soon on downswing my weight never really shifts to the left and my right shoulder is in an impact degree of "downess" ( relative to Hogan) but my hands are still mid-chest.

Thanks for any thoughts...

The above statement puzzles me. It's my understanding that a weight shift occurs because the hips slide left. If the head remains centered and stationary, then the hip motion results in an Axis Tilt. The Hula-Hula concept impresses upon you the necessity of the stationary head in permitting Axis tilt to occur.

The last part that say's "hands are still mid chest" can have varying causes, but obvious and easily corrected, however, Zone 1, the pivot; feet, knees, hips, and eventually shoulders needs to be corrected before Zone 2.

[lagster]

I have been looking at the photos of Hogan's swing in "power Golf", specifically at the degree of downswing shoulder rotation and "downness" of the right shoulder.

My basic assumption/knowledge for swingers is :-

Rotation of shoulders leads to start of throw out action

Delay throw out action by "moving in a straight line"

Secondary axis tilt provides straight line motion and delays throw out.


Now based on that I have studied the face on photos of Hogan and was surprised that his downswing begins with quite alot of shoulder rotation combined withlateral weight shift to left.

See his "end" position

Shoulder turn is about 110 degrees - John Daly style

See his "Downswing hands mid chest location"

Shoulder turn is about 30 degrees and shoulders are level.

ie. lots of rotation of shoulders for not much "downness" of right shoulder down plane

His hands have moved about 30 inches.


Now look at pictures through to impact

The shoulders complete the last 30-40 degrees of rotation but right shoulder goes much more down and more obvious tilt.

What I am leading to is a discussion of when does axis tilt occur. Hogan seems to have a definite rotation of about 70 degress on downswing before much right shoulder down plane action and tilt occurs.

Is this early ( relative to tilting) shoulder rotation the way that a swinger goes from "end " to the "top" of his straight line delivery path??

Is downswing shoulder rotation needed for "top arc" and secondary axis tilt needed for "straight line delivery "??

Do these observations seem true to you. I know that if I try to tilt too soon on downswing my weight never really shifts to the left and my right shoulder is in an impact degree of "downess" ( relative to Hogan) but my hands are still mid-chest.

Thanks for any thoughts...

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If you look at pictures of Sergio Garcia... you will see a similar shoulder action to Ben Hogan. Bobby Clampett is another.
Their right shoulder does not appear to move Down, until very late in the downswing.

I believe Mr. Skywalker has some information posted dealing with AXIS TILTS and DELIVERY PATHS.

If the downswing sequencing gets off, and/or PIVOT LAG is out of order due to an emphasis on the RIGHT SHOULDER MOTION AT STARTDOWN... I can see how this could cause problems. This is sometimes a problem. When concentrating on one component, sometimes the others that should come before that one can be smothered out. All the right things need to be in there... even and especially... when you are monitoring certain things.

[Daryl]

///////////////////////////////////////////////////

If you look at pictures of Sergio Garcia... you will see a similar shoulder action to Ben Hogan. Bobby Clampett is another.
Their right shoulder does not appear to move Down, until very late in the downswing.

I believe Mr. Skywalker has some information posted dealing with AXIS TILTS and DELIVERY PATHS.

If the downswing sequencing gets off, and/or PIVOT LAG is out of order due to an emphasis on the RIGHT SHOULDER MOTION AT STARTDOWN... I can see how this could cause problems. This is sometimes a problem. When concentrating on one component, sometimes the others that should come before that one can be smothered out. All the right things need to be in there... even and especially... when you are monitoring certain things.

True: even the best motion can be exaggerated to a fault.

[EdZ]

///////////////////////////////////////////////////

If you look at pictures of Sergio Garcia... you will see a similar shoulder action to Ben Hogan. Bobby Clampett is another.
Their right shoulder does not appear to move Down, until very late in the downswing.

I've noticed that to get to that type of position, I need to focus on a 'hands downplane' motion (Tomesello move), which is counter to the 'hips move' that Hogan speaks of. (keep in mind I have an aggressive hip drive, so that move still allows proper sequence 'up the chain' in my case).