Angled Line Delivery "procedures"

[HungryBear]

"many" employ an angled line delivery, maybe more in swinging than hitting, BUT the "HOW" of getting "around the corner" for the plane shift without serious problems has long been on my mind.
In 7-7 HK mentions "holding" the shaft on line, and, controled procedures that "may be more difficult".
In 7-23 Par. #3 I think HK is giving a WHY to make a shift.
In 10-7 HK gives variations. I see 10-7-C, 10-7-E and one not shown which, I would like to include, would be a "under plane" loop or smooth transition shift.

My concerns are with locating the shift. ie. 1. as a transition move, "kinda" like Hogan moving into his HULK position. 2. At release as the hands start around the pulley (if they do) or 3. In a continuous sweep motion.
Because-
All shifts make me deal with forces perpendicular to "the plane".
These forces can be holding or mechanical manipulation and these forces can be club head and hand "inertia" forces created by the shift.

I note that HK said- 10-7-A ZERO "is included so it can be indicated in a players prepared Stroke Pattern.." seems to me that it is more a "bookmark" than a destination.

How do TGM instructors teach this, if they do, or is it considered BAD procedure that one tries to remove?

HB

[Mike O]

References
7-7 PLANE ANGLE VARIATIONS Due to personal preference, natural inclination of the pressure of conditions it is not always possible or advisable to adhere to a single Inclined Plane classification throughout the entire Stroke. Players often – consciously or subconsciously – employ more than one of the “natural” Planes. The Shoulder Planes are the more consciously employed – the Elbow Plane the more – almost totally – subconsciously used. Vaguely or incorrectly defined Planes and Variations must be eliminated. The list is restricted to those of fairly common usage – good and bad. Other than the Right Shoulder positions, only the Elbow reference point has any great general usefulness. The “Hand Angle” is emergency or special purpose application. Wrist Action and the selected Inclined Plane must be compatible – watch especially with “No Wristcock” Strokes.

During any Shift of Planes the Clubshaft is held On Plane with the Plane Line as though the Plane itself were moving to the new location. Other controlled procedures that achieve On Plane Impact may be more difficult but need not be deemed improper. Such as positioning the Clubshaft at The Top of the Plane Angle intended for Release. And study 2-N.


CUSTOMIZED PLANES

10-7-E REVERSE SHIFT As its name implies it is the exact reverse of the Single Shift. That is, the Shift is from a Turned Shoulder Plane Angle Backstroke to an Elbow Plane Angle Downstroke.

10-7-F THE LOOP The Loop is similar to the Single Shift except that the Shift is made to the Squared Shoulder Plane Angle and is done with a looping motion of the Clubhead. Knowing how to stay On Plane per 2-F will correct for the Flat Shoulder Turn “Shift” to this steeper Plane – intentional or not. But the cure is Pivot Correction. See 9-1.

10-7-G THE REVERSE LOOP This is similar to the Reverse Shift except that the Shift is made from the Squared Shoulder Plane Angle but also is done with a looping motion of the Clubhead. Handled with skill, this Shift can be very effective.

10-7-H THE TWIST Here the Backstroke is on the Turning Shoulder Plane but the Downstroke shifts directly to the Squared Shoulder Plane by an immediate Flat Shoulder Turn with its obvious looping action.

7-23 POWER PACKAGE DELIVERY PATH- paragraph three
The Straight Line Path is a simpler procedure than the Angled Line Path. But the latter is very natural movement and has the advantage of the true Elbow Plane through Impact. The former can have a steeper-than-normal Elbow Plane compensated with a reaching-out of the arms and a shifting of the Left Hand Grip that places the Clubshaft in the Cup of the Hand instead of under the heel of the Hand, and the Right Hand Grip adjusted to correspond. The sharpness of the arcs at either end of “Line” Paths determines how much of that “Line” can remain and how much the change from Linear Speed (Downstroke) to Angular Speed (Release) will increase Clubhead Speed without changing Hand Speed – the “Endless Belt Effect” of #3 Accumulator per 2-K#6 and 6-B-3-B.
5. PG 111, 7-23, paragraph 3, line 2, from period to period on line 7 - rewrite "In fact the Elbow Plane is normally a "Pivot Controlled Hands" component as discussed in 10-6-B and 10-24-F.
6. PG 111, 7-23, paragraph 3, last line - delete "of Accumulator #3" and add "per 2-K #6, 6-E-2, and 7-18".

[Etzwane]

Such as positioning the Clubshaft at The Top of the Plane Angle intended for Release.

Hank Haney's golf swing theory?

[Etzwane]

All shifts make me deal with forces perpendicular to "the plane".
These forces can be holding or mechanical manipulation and these forces can be club head and hand "inertia" forces created by the shift.

For that reason, I'd say from the mechanical point of view the shift to the impact plane should happen before the club takes too much speed, i.e. in the begining of the downswing.

[HungryBear]

For that reason, I'd say from the mechanical point of view the shift to the impact plane should happen before the club takes too much speed, i.e. in the begining of the downswing.

Two considerations:
1. Initial plane must intersect new impact plane.
2. The sooner the intersection the sharper the shift angle.

HB

[O.B.Left]

How do TGM instructors teach this, if they do, or is it considered BAD procedure that one tries to remove?

HB

Despite the fact Homer outlined , defined all manner of Plane Shifts, when reading the book you do get the impression that he considered plane shifts to be hazardous. However in the audio tapes from the GSEM classes he comes across differently IMO.

Take for example the Turning Shoulder Plane which was far more popular back in the early 80's than it is today. The 80's being the era of "sky high hands" at the top of the backswing. During the '82 GSEM class Greg McHatton related a story to Homer about a pupil of his who after lessons would immediately revert to her Turning Shoulder Plane stroke .... a continual plane shift up and then down if you will..... To which Homer replied ... "well why don't you teach her a Turning Shoulder Plane stroke but with better Alignments if thats what she wants to do?". Go figure! That is in effect an endorsement of a Jim Furyk type stroke from Homer . Wouldn't want to teach it but once somebody's got it just fix it don't wreck it.


Id say that plane shifts do happen . Brian Gay has one , its not very big (and that could be the answer to your question) but its there. I'd personally prefer a small plane shift to Homers zero shift procedure where the Turned Shoulder Plane is aligned to an extremely high Elbow Plane . Those super high hands at address just don't look or feel quite right to me. Moe came close to that you could argue.... and he was pretty good.

By the way in the audio tapes of '82 Homer seems to have a preference for a zero shift procedure where from Address (with the Right Arm on the true or flatter normal Elbow Plane) the club head travels the Turned Shoulder Plane in Startup. A zero shift but a club head plane as opposed to a clubs shaft plane of motion. Suggesting to me that he had refined his single plane procedure from that which he outlined in the 6th edition. Tiger seems to be doing this currently , there's some video of him from this years Pebble Beach tourney where he is clearly doing it but with a shift down in Startdown.

Id don't know what Sean Foley teaches these days but years ago he believed that a "vertical drop" had a mechanical advantage in that it got the arms closer to the body which allowed the pivot to turn faster . Like the figure skater spin deal .... What is that again ? COAM? I can't remember, HB you know I bet.

I don't have a problem with small Plane Shifts personally as the return to the Elbow Plane , the on plane Right Forearm Flying Wedge is IMO critical. Its just such a super strong mechanical alignment. Id gladly shift down to get that thing crushing the ball. So give me the Turned Shoulder Plane for Right Shoulder support and travel in Startdown and the Elbow Plane through the ball but keep em kinda close together from a down the line perspective. Thats where Im at currently anyways.

[O.B.Left]

Here's some plane shift imagery I really like ... Its easy to imagine how this could be changed to show all manner of shifting or non shifting.

One singular plane but its shifts angles.

[innercityteacher]

Despite the fact Homer outlined , defined all manner of Plane Shifts, when reading the book you do get the impression that he considered plane shifts to be hazardous. However in the audio tapes from the GSEM classes he comes across differently IMO.

Take for example the Turning Shoulder Plane which was far more popular back in the early 80's than it is today. The 80's being the era of "sky high hands" at the top of the backswing. During the '82 GSEM class Greg McHatton related a story to Homer about a pupil of his who after lessons would immediately revert to her Turning Shoulder Plane stroke .... a continual plane shift up and then down if you will..... To which Homer replied ... "well why don't you teach her a Turning Shoulder Plane stroke but with better Alignments if thats what she wants to do?". Go figure! That is in effect an endorsement of a Jim Furyk type stroke from Homer . Wouldn't want to teach it but once somebody's got it just fix it don't wreck it.


Id say that plane shifts do happen . Brian Gay has one , its not very big (and that could be the answer to your question) but its there. I'd personally prefer a small plane shift to Homers zero shift procedure where the Turned Shoulder Plane is aligned to an extremely high Elbow Plane . Those super high hands at address just don't look or feel quite right to me. Moe came close to that you could argue.... and he was pretty good.

By the way in the audio tapes of '82 Homer seems to have a preference for a zero shift procedure where from Address (with the Right Arm on the true or flatter normal Elbow Plane) the club head travels the Turned Shoulder Plane in Startup. A zero shift but a club head plane as opposed to a clubs shaft plane of motion. Suggesting to me that he had refined his single plane procedure from that which he outlined in the 6th edition. Tiger seems to be doing this currently , there's some video of him from this years Pebble Beach tourney where he is clearly doing it but with a shift down in Startdown.

Id don't know what Sean Foley teaches these days but years ago he believed that a "vertical drop" had a mechanical advantage in that it got the arms closer to the body which allowed the pivot to turn faster . Like the figure skater spin deal .... What is that again ? COAM? I can't remember, HB you know I bet.

I don't have a problem with small Plane Shifts personally as the return to the Elbow Plane , the on plane Right Forearm Flying Wedge is IMO critical. Its just such a super strong mechanical alignment. Id gladly shift down to get that thing crushing the ball. So give me the Turned Shoulder Plane for Right Shoulder support and travel in Startdown and the Elbow Plane through the ball but keep em kinda close together from a down the line perspective. Thats where Im at currently anyways.

So level left wrist, Moe Norman like, RFT to a shoulder Plane, and then I drop to elbow plane and roll the shoulder and hammer that puppy! So smooth, so straight! No shift elbow plane pitches=the TRUTH!

[O.B.Left]

So level left wrist, Moe Norman like, RFT to a shoulder Plane, and then I drop to elbow plane and roll the shoulder and hammer that puppy! So smooth, so straight! No shift elbow plane pitches=the TRUTH!

Hah! You shifty!

Ice T baby , Level left yes but to get that super high elbow Plane at address could perhaps suggest a left grip type where it's more palmy than fingers . Reduced #3 angle if you will. That's the part that feels weird to me. That and physicals after the age of 50.

[innercityteacher]

Hah! You shifty!

Ice T baby , Level left yes but to get that super high elbow Plane at address could perhaps suggest a left grip type where it's more palmy than fingers . Reduced #3 angle if you will. That's the part that feels weird to me. That and physicals after the age of 50.

When my left wrist is not level, my stroke goes to heck! I guess a level left wrist ala MOE = shoulder plane but with my level left wrist my hands feel like they are on my "belly button plane." I RFT up to the Turned shoulder Plane and then drop my elbow and hands back to the Elbow Plane.

Is "goat humping" turning the right hip so that the hands drop from whichever plane they are on back to the elbow plane?

If my hands stay on the Elbow or "belly button' plane, and I turn back and through, it feels like Rory McElroy's swing I imagine. I have a short thumb Hogan grip. It is the flattest of all swings it seems.

Does this makes sense?