Tripod Center Vote

[rogerdodger]

The picture of Sergio illustrates the pivot center, however my question pertains to the tailbone part of the spine. What movement, if any, of the tailbone takes place in the backswing? Does preturning the right hip involve making sure the tailbone is set? Appropriate chapter where this is discussed?

[rwh]

Here's a look at Billy Casper's action. For several years running in his career, there was much talk about The Big Three -- Nicklaus, Palmer, and Player -- but there was really a Big One...

Buffalo Billy.

Check out his Head Positon at the Top of each sequence...first the Wedge and then the Long Iron. Is it Centered? If so, that would be a Head Pivot Center for one of the great players of his time.

The Pivot is a two-way street -- back and through. What is the big deal of keeping the head in the center with very little axis tilt to the Top if you're just going to have to add a lot more axis tilt and move the head to the right on the way back to the ball, as Casper obviously does in the sequence on page 124 - 125. His head is almost over the inside of his right foot in the bottom left photo on p. 125.

[Sonic_Doom]

My 2 cents.

I voted for (d) and here's why:

The spine is one continuous member; it is not seperated at the base of the neck. The head and base of the neck are one in the same IMO. The head contains all the sensing and monitoring abilities.

Head Tripod Centre most resembles machine construction pricinples. This is what TGM is about IMO. It dosen't consider physical limitations-nor should it. I agree that its OPTIMAL (essential) not MANDATORY (imperative).

As we've seen, one can illustrate almost every conceivable idea (right or wrong) about the golf swing using a professional's photos/sequences. This IMO only demonstrates that certain individuals possess talent most of us will never realize. Ever watched Jeff Healy play guitar?

CW

[Yoda]

The Pivot is a two-way street -- back and through. What is the big deal of keeping the head in the center with very little axis tilt to the Top if you're just going to have to add a lot more axis tilt and move the head to the right on the way back to the ball, as Casper obviously does in the sequence on page 124 - 125. His head is almost over the inside of his right foot in the bottom left photo on p. 125. [Bold by Yoda]

In the Billy Casper Long-Iron sequence of post #27 above, did his Head Sway? Or did his Right Foot Slide?

For the answer, compare the Stance Width in the Release photo (the first at the top of page 125) with the Follow-Through and Finish photos at the bottom.

Long-time followers know that Billy's Full Stroke is characterized by a pronounced slide of his Right Foot during Release. That pronounced slide of the Foot (as motivated by the Hip Slide) may have been motivated by Billy's extremely Turned Left Hand in the Grip. Or it might simply be the result of personal preference. In any event, the "parallel to the Delivery Line" slide of both Hip and Foot is extremely compatible with his Turned Left Hand and "shut" Clubface technique.

For an example of a Head Pivot Center without the excessive Hip Slide and accordingly, without the excessive Foot Slide, see the Hogan sequence in post #26. With his neutral Grip and Vertical-to-the-ground Flat Left Wrist during the Follow-Through, Ben's Head is Centered both at the Top and at Impact.

Or, check out Casper's Pitch Shot sequence, where the momentum of the shorter Stroke is not sufficient to generate the excessive Hip and Foot Slides of his Full Stroke.

The bottom line is that the Head Pivot Center does not require that the Head move well back toward the Right Foot in order for the Hip Slide to effect Axis Tilt. In fact, by definition, it prohibits it.

Remember, TGM does not mandate a fixed Pivot Center. However. if you forgo its advantage, you will, in the words of Homer Kelley, "have to pay the price." For those who would utilize a Pivot Center, all that is required is that "some point on the body be kept stationary throughout the Stroke to limit the motion." He gave us specifically two options: the Head (including its Pivot-on-the-neck capability per 1-L #2) and the point-between-the-shoulders. He recommended the Head Center but in no way mandated it (2-H). So, pick whichever Center you want, and then...

Keep it as still as your own humanity and golfing skill allows.

[rwh]

In my opinion, when compared to the background trees, the head moves a lot.

[Yoda]

In my opinion, when compared to the background trees, the head moves a lot.

But maybe not quite as much as you thought when comparing it with his Right Foot...right, Bob?

Personally, I see little Sway (3-F-7-D), but I do detect a slight Bob (3-F-7-C). Bobbing results from movement in the Back or Knees or both. With good players, that movement is almost always the result of positioning the Head at Address slightly higher than it will be at Impact. Thus, Bobbing becomes a necessary compensation.

Why do they do this? My guess is that, for the most part...

They don't know there is an alternative.

[Yoda]

The head contains all the sensing and monitoring abilities.

Head Tripod Centre most resembles machine construction principles. This is what TGM is about IMO. It dosen't consider physical limitations-nor should it. I agree that its OPTIMAL (essential) not MANDATORY (imperative).

As we've seen, one can illustrate almost every conceivable idea (right or wrong) about the golf swing using a professional's photos/sequences. This IMO only demonstrates that certain individuals possess talent most of us will never realize. Ever watched Jeff Healy play guitar?

Great post, Millrat. Probably the most sense anybody's made of this so far.

[12 piece bucket]

In the Billy Casper

Long-time followers know that Billy's Full Stroke is characterized by a pronounced slide of his Right Foot during Release. That pronounced slide of the Foot (as motivated by the Hip Slide) may have been motivated by Billy's extremely Turned Left Hand in the Grip. Or it might simply be the result of personal preference. In any event, the "parallel to the Delivery Line" slide of both Hip and Foot is extremely compatible with his Turned Left Hand and "shut" Clubface technique.

For an example of a Head Pivot Center without the excessive Hip Slide and accordingly, without the excessive Foot Slide, see the Hogan sequence in post #26. With his neutral Grip and Vertical-to-the-ground Flat Left Wrist during the Follow-Through, Ben's Head is Centered both at the Top and at Impact.

Sharp analysis Boss!!! This resonated particularly with ole Buckethead because of the 10-2-D grip.

Going a lil' deeper . . . As a result of the Turned Left Hand the hands must go forward deeper into the release interval before executing the hinge action.






Is this also the reason we see Lee Buck slide so much deeper with his legs too?

I know that some have debated the side to side movement of Buck's head . . . But the most pronounced movement of his head was DOWNWARD.

[tongzilla]

Remember, TGM does not mandate a fixed Pivot Center. However. if you forgo its advantage, you will, in the words of Homer Kelley, "have to pay the price." For those who would utilize a Pivot Center, all that is required is that "some point on the body be kept stationary throughout the Stroke to limit the motion." He gave us specifically two options: the Head (including its Pivot-on-the-neck capability per 1-L #2) and the point-between-the-shoulders. He recommended the Head Center but in no way mandated it (2-H). So, pick whichever Center you want, and then...

Keep it as still as your own humanity and golfing skill allows.

Thanks Yoda. I think that washes away many misconceptions of you disliking the base of the neck Pivot Center (or "point-between-the-shoulders" as you put it).

I have one more question. Does that mean if a student comes to you without the concept of a Pivot Center, you will arbitarily teach him the Head Pivot Center since it's recommended by Homer? Or could you teach him to use a base of the neck Pivot Center depending on his current motion.

[DOCW3]

The picture of Sergio illustrates the pivot center, however my question pertains to the tailbone part of the spine. What movement, if any, of the tailbone takes place in the backswing? Does preturning the right hip involve making sure the tailbone is set? Appropriate chapter where this is discussed?

You may find something for consideration in 7-16.

DRW