Base of the Neck vs. Through the Head "centers"

[Yoda]

I thought maybe, Mathew, that you could draw one of those little illustrations of yours that will show the superiority of one of the "pivot center" methods.

Be careful what you wish for, Brian.

We'll have some up soon in the original thread. Remember, that was the one where the really substantive question was asked:

"Does the Pivot have a Center at its top, or should it be allowed to Sway to the right as so much modern instruction would have us believe."

[12 piece bucket]

Here is my OPINION:

I think creating and sustaining lag pressue is easier with the base of the neck.

I think staying or getting 'on top' (or behind, if you prefer) of the sweetspot with your #3 pressure point—as in Horizontal Hinging—is easier with the base of the neck.

I think performing ANGLED hinge action or vertical hinge action to be easier with the "through the head" center.

If you bend you plane line too much to the left as a rule, you will find it easier to NOT bend it left with the "base of the neck" center.

If you bend the plane line to the right as a rule, , you will find it easier to NOT bend it right with the "through the head" center.

What do ya'll think?

B,

I have no beef with you. But I think you have this debate thing a bit backwards.

No offense meant here but it seems to me that the burden of proof would be in your court. In your above post you have said "in my opinion" and "I think." You are debating in your AWAY jersey. The book has defined the Stationary Post in 1-L and also the stationary head in 2-0. Mr. Kelley provided his supporting evidence. Seems to me for a true debate you would need to provide your evidence as to the above, not Mathew.

Mr. Kelley has given support for his theory. If you think the base of the neck offers better compression in some instances, we need your science. Please don't call that Mandrin dork though

Best regards,

B

[Mathew]

When you later said in regards to the great pictures Martee made.

This is the first post

The picture are not in a 'sequence,' so what?

Actually this is absolutely incorrect! They are a sequence and now I fixed the frames 'in photoshop' after being scanned badly, we can see quite clearly that they are a match just how far off this line is...

[Martee]

Good points, Marty!

Try this experiment:

Have a pal hold your head dead still.

Have another hold a finger BARELY above the base of the 'neck bone.'

Make a backstroke.

What happens?

The 'neck bone' moves WAY forward.

What is that, reverse swaying?

I don't know what it is exactly, but it is NOT rotation about a fixed point...

'cause the point is MOVING.

Guess I don't know where the neck bone is, cause yes I can feel the outside move, but it is rotating around. At issue is where is the center point and does it move. Is it the 'thoracic spine rotation center'? Now I did your test sitting down, I was attempting to minimize any movement other than the shoulders, don't know if that will make a difference.

The more I read what you write, I guess I am of the opinion that you don't subscribe to 1-L-1/2 cause you keep introducing movements and seem to be supporting your position that even the base of the neck movement is not only permitted but desired.

[Mathew]

[quote]

Oh yeah...

...also notice I cleaned up your work , (much clearer...lol)

Hmmmmm No.....

Your yellow line goes right through Sam's Shoulder Blade...lol

Now, I knew there would be no picture with lines on it that would prove/convince you to you what im about to show you - so I took extreme measures ....lol



Now I don't believe you can argue with this line right ?....

Ok, lets look at the backstroke...



Notice how at address the spine is tilted towards the target and how the spine leans away from the target....

Now look at the photo of snead again beside me....



Is this supposed to be cleaning up my work, or you just not doing your homework ?

[brianmanzella]

I would like to keep this thread in this thread, Lynn, sir.

I am looking for an answer of any mechanical validity of what happens to the PATTERN and what happens to the club in both methods and if there are any advantages to either.

In this fresh thread, where I started a topic that I could control—somewhat—I have no problem asking, listening, questioning, etc.

If anyone wishes to put me in a box, this is the box I would like to be in.

....mechanical validity....no tricks, no obscure quotes, no tour player opinion...

Just fresh science.

[brianmanzella]

I am looking at your very well done pictures, Mathew...

Forget Snead, what are you trying to show?

The correct move or the incorrect one in your mind?

Thanks for the response in advance,

Brian Manzella.

[Yoda]

If anyone wishes to put me in a box, this is the box I would like to be in.

....mechanical validity....no tricks, no obscure quotes, no tour player opinion...

Just fresh science.

Hey, who needs all that...

We've got Mathew nekkid!

[brianmanzella]

I need an answer to my question, if you please...

let me rephrase...

Matthew, is the backswing you made in the shirt-less pics, the model one in your opinion, or an incorrect one, in your opinion?

[12 piece bucket]

I would like to keep this thread in this thread, Lynn, sir.

I am looking for an answer of any mechanical validity of what happens to the PATTERN and what happens to the club in both methods and if there are any advantages to either.

In this fresh thread, where I started a topic that I could control—somewhat—I have no problem asking, listening, questioning, etc.

If anyone wishes to put me in a box, this is the box I would like to be in.

....mechanical validity....no tricks, no obscure quotes, no tour player opinion...

Just fresh science.

As of yet there is no box because we have not seen any "fresh science" to support your thesis . . .

I can hear ole Mandrin revin' up the slide rule.