#3 Location

[ChrisNZ]

1)

2) The 'roll' is imparted by the PIVOT. Uncock (on plane) then Roll (via the pivot throw out action). The uncock is a 'downward on plane' motion, the plane of the left wristcock, the left wedge. If CF is being used properly, the 'true swinger' will find that nothing must be done with the HANDS to produce 'roll' - simply uncocking and pivoting properly.

This is what I feel with the Tomasello motion shown recently - a strong uncocking downplane with the feel like the club is going into the ball way open. But then the pivot kicks in and you get a nice little drawing action. Sometimes I fail to trust however, and bend the plane line - I mean the club looks really open!

With the pivot supplying the roll, would you say the pivot centre (or verticle axis) is serving as a hinge pin on the horizontal plane?

Chris

[lagster]

At the Swinger's End Backstroke, the #3 pressure Point has rotated to the top of the Shaft and against the first knuckle -- the equivalent of a Weak Single Action Grip (10-2-A). It remains there at least until Release and possibly through Impact (not mechanically the ideal, but not disastrous either since Centrifugal Force, not Muscular Effort, is driving the Club).

The Hitter should stop at the Top of the Line Delivery Path. In so doing, his #3 Pressure Point never varies: It remains against the back of the Shaft and in the meaty part of the Right Forefinger.

The Plane Line itself has no effect on the #3 Pressure Point Location of either Swinger or Hitter. Except, of course, that the #3 Pressure Point -- or any alternative Pressure Point assigned the Clubhead Lag -- must always be driven unfailingly toward the Line (1-L #10).

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Lagster has been out for a few days due to the recent hurricane.

Mr. Yoda... would you say the rotation of the #3 Pressure Point from the Top of the shaft (for the Swinger),back(returning) to the Back of the shaft(ideally) during RELEASE... is the result of CENTRIFUGAL FORCE, or is a manipulated action?

Also, it might be good to mention how disruptions will/could occur if a HITTER rotates his #3 Pressure Point at the Top.

As far as the Premium site... I kind of agree with Tongzilla that the new people will probably not want to pay a fee.
A SPECIAL premium video section, while keeping some video available on the regular site, might work. The VIDEOS are excellent, by the way!!!

[phillygolf]

I asked this:

I have a question.

How many on here can actually Feel a rotating lag pressure point? Please - everyone respond.


Thanks.

And got this:

The startup swivel and 'end' are the two key areas IMO.

Why startup swivel??? I can understand end.

After what has been discussed, I think the keys to this 'top of the shaft loading feel' is:

• Drag Loading
• Standard Wrist Action on Downstroke

The reason I didn't include Startup Swivel (or Standard Wrist Action on Backstroke) and End Assembly Point is because they are not mandatory for this quater turn feel in loading pressure, even though they are very compatible.

I assume by 'top of shaft loading feel' you mean rotating lag pressure point. Agree with drag. Why only list standard???

Why startup swivel???? What does that have to do with RLPP (rotating...lag..)???

I know that everything is rotating...but I personally don't really feel it (or sense it consciously) in PP3....I would think that I sense the rotation more in my left arm, left hand, and left wrist (left wrist = clubface). I use PP3 mostly to trace the plane line (if I'm using RFT) and I guess more subconsciously to sustain lag.

BTW, I thought left hand was clubFACE, right hand (which includes PP3) was clubHEAD?

First, I agree. I dont feel it either. But then again, I have way way too many moving parts!!!!!!!

Secondly, you are correct - lefthand=clubface, right hand=clubhead as Lynn puts it together below..

You are making remarkable progress, Leo. Three thumbs up!

Ahhh....My Yoda. A thumbs up for Tong.....

Same questions!

Why only list standard???

Why startup swivel???? What does that have to do with RLPP (rotating...lag..)???

Thank you everyone!

[lagster]

I asked this:



And got this:



Why startup swivel??? I can understand end.




I assume by 'top of shaft loading feel' you mean rotating lag pressure point. Agree with drag. Why only list standard???

Why startup swivel???? What does that have to do with RLPP (rotating...lag..)???




First, I agree. I dont feel it either. But then again, I have way way too many moving parts!!!!!!!

Secondly, you are correct - lefthand=clubface, right hand=clubhead as Lynn puts it together below..




Ahhh....My Yoda. A thumbs up for Tong.....

Same questions!

Why only list standard???

Why startup swivel???? What does that have to do with RLPP (rotating...lag..)???

Thank you everyone!

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With Standard Wrist Action the Left Wrist Turns and the Right Forearm FANS. The #3 Pressure Point will go along with this movement. I think the #3 Pressure Point Rotation Mr. Kelley talks about(10-11-O-3) is at the End(Swinging).

The question I had is if the #3 moves to the Top of the shaft...what CAUSES the pressure point to get back to behind the shaft(on plane), manipulation or centrifugal force? I realize that SOME Swingers keep it in the Weak (on top) position after it rotates at the END, but I think it is better if it goes back to the ON PLANE position at some point before IMPACT.

[tongzilla]

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With Standard Wrist Action the Left Wrist Turns and the Right Forearm FANS. The #3 Pressure Point will go along with this movement. I think the #3 Pressure Point Rotation Mr. Kelley talks about(10-11-O-3) is at the End(Swinging).

The question I had is if the #3 moves to the Top of the shaft...what CAUSES the pressure point to get back to behind the shaft(on plane), manipulation or centrifugal force? I realize that SOME Swingers keep it in the Weak (on top) position after it rotates at the END, but I think it is better if it goes back to the ON PLANE position at some point before IMPACT.

Like I said in my previous posts, the feel of Pressure Point #3 rotating is not really to do with Standard Wrist Action on Backstroke, or the End location of Assembly Point.

Pressure Point #3 doesn't actually physically move to the top of the shaft -- it's a feeling.

PP #3 moves back to its aft position because of the Release Swivel. There should be a Strong Single Action grip throughout the stroke.

[annikan skywalker]

Philly,

Start up Swivel changes the shaft to sweetspot rotation which may or may not have a direct relationship to the 1/4 Turn loading direction rather than an actual turn at the Top/End...

I could be wrong? I would welcome correction if needed!!!

To me Swivel is more of a shaft/sweetspot thing than exclusively a clubface thing...

The clubface thing is subject to the "Hinge Action." Executing Impact as a swivel leads to erratic clubface alignments/motions

Yoda....Am I on to it or NOT????

Annikan

[lagster]

Pressure Point #3 moves(on it's own) to the top of the shaft when the club goes to the END, with Swinging. You don't have to manually rotate it. Some keep it there, in the weak position, and some have it return to the aft(ON PLANE) position on the downswing before IMPACT.

IF... a Hitter rotates to the WEAK position... he will ususlly have problems. He needs to keep that #3 AFT, where it can be in a PUSHING position.

[EdZ]

CF can help loading on the backswing too

When using a startup swivel, CF on the backswing can load lag pressure along the joint/pad next to PP#3. Not a 'real' pressure point, but one that can be felt when using startup swivel. This can be a little 'extra' help for maintaining extensor action - using CF - rather than using only right arm.

The feeling of the 'wheels rim'

[phillygolf]

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With Standard Wrist Action the Left Wrist Turns and the Right Forearm FANS. The #3 Pressure Point will go along with this movement. I think the #3 Pressure Point Rotation Mr. Kelley talks about(10-11-O-3) is at the End(Swinging).

Lagster...

Only with 10-18-A???

Philly,

Start up Swivel changes the shaft to sweetspot rotation which may or may not have a direct relationship to the 1/4 Turn loading direction rather than an actual turn at the Top/End...

I could be wrong? I would welcome correction if needed!!!

To me Swivel is more of a shaft/sweetspot thing than exclusively a clubface thing...

the clubface thing is subject to the "Hinge Action" Executing Impact as a swivel leads to erratic clubface alignments/motions

Yoda....Am I on to it or NOT????

Annikan

Hang on my friend!

Doesnt um....different wrist actions wind up with the same top position???

some have it return to the aft(ON PLANE) position on the downswing before IMPACT.

How?

There should be a Strong Single Action grip throughout the stroke.

So....

Freddy with his 10-2-D doesnt have a rotating lag pressure point????


HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[lagster]

Lagster...

Only with 10-18-A???




Hang on my friend!

Doesnt um....different wrist actions wind up with the same top position???


How?


So....

Freddy with his 10-2-D doesnt have a rotating lag pressure point????


HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Good questions by phillygolf!!!

Since LAG is the secret, it would be good to understand exactly what the PRESSURE POINT that senses and monitors that Lag Pressure is doing, and where it is!

If you take a little flashlight or laser and shine it out of your #3... you will see that the right forearm motion back, up, and in, if done properly, will shine the light on the plane line. This can be done with Standard, or Single Wrist Action.

Now... when the #3 is ROTATED to the (top of the shaft) at the END with Swinging, and HOW it returns to the AFT side of the shaft on the downswing, is another thing. This question, I think, really has not been answered yet. I would say that this happens by either Centrifugal Force, or by a learned hand manipulation. Some, of course, leave the #3 in the weak position after it moves there at the END.

A description is given in 10-11-O-3, but HOW the return to the AFT side is done is not really given... it just says it "may" happen when the "wrists SWIVEL back to their Vertical Position.

Now... with a Swinger using Single Wrist Action?