Can anyone find a video or picture of a good player who actually uses a pitch basic stroke? I certainly cant
Do you mean Pitch Elbow.....how 'bout Hogan. His elbow was in front of him.
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Now to trigger delay- just because you swing does not mean maximum trigger delay- look at Tom Watson or any other player who uses full sweep.
Agreed, I'm one myself, but I think you mean Random Sweep. Full Sweep means no Delay what so ever.....a great shot to have, around the green.
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Finally Wrist Action- hitters must use single wrist action, once you turn to the plane you are using standard wrist action which is a swing.
With single wrist action, it seems to me, that you can not take the club back more then about right forearm parallel to the base of the plane
Single and Standard both arrive at the same position at Top and On Plane. The difference lies in how they get there. Think of it as the backswings version of Sequenced vs Overlapping Release Motions. There are implications to the Pressure Points, which ones are loaded , when and how. But that said Hitters dont have to use Single for total motion anyways....it'd make a lot of sense especially for a Drive Loader but there are no "musts", I dont think. Two hands on the club maybe, if possible. A 4B Hitter could Standard Wrist Action his way to End , load the Knuckle , Drag in Startdown and then Drive in Release, I believe.
But I do agree that it is the best way. "As ye go back, so shall ye come doon" in Scottish. I think a lot of it has to do with which Lag Pressure Point you are loading personally. The so called "direction of loading" can have a corresponding Wrist Action. Hogan loaded his knuckle for a half wedge shot say , so he had to get his Right Palm under the plane , his Left Hand Swiveled to the Plane to load that #3 pp at the Knuckle and Load his Left Wrist. He was Loaded for Dragging and then Throwing Out (Automatic Wrist Throw, Release Trigger) of his #2 Angle down the Inclined Plane and at the Plane Line , Sequenced Release... 2 then 3, Golfer Flail. A Drive Loader hitting a half wedge would load the Index Finger and the Right Elbow and then Drive against the #1 on the AFt of the Shaft, all with less Wrist Action accordingly. The former Throws out his #2 with his Right Palm to the underside of the Plane the latter fires his #1 which pushes the Left Hand off the Plane and triggers an simultaneous Release.
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Lets not group hitters and swingers based on a very basic understanding of what some may or may not do. The book has some 400 quadrillion possible swing combinations, all of which have some practical application- otherwise they would have been eliminated as we all know Mr. Kelly was in favor of anything to streamline the book.
I totally agree. Like a lot of Homers classifications ...you have the two extremes and then the full spectrum in between. Its up to you and your common sense to determine what is useful......some of it gets very un common or un golf like. Like Snap Loading in Total Motion say, not common in the least , but it is possible.
Like a lot of Homers classifications ...you have the two extremes and then the full spectrum in between. Its up to you and your common sense to determine what is useful......some of it gets very un common or un golf like. Like Snap Loading in Total Motion say, not common in the least , but it is possible.
At the risk of sounding like a simpleton, which I am, I really like that last paragraph O.B. I haven't thought of it like that, and it really widens the spectrum for me!
Kevin
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I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
1. The key to Stricker's swing is, it has fewer moving parts: It's a stiff-wristed action controlled by a big body turn.
2. He generates power by turning his body and rotating his forearms back and through, compared to the last-second snap of the wrists you see in many top players.
Picture 11 shows that Steve is setting up with slight right wrist bend and hands close to left instead of mid body position.
Picture 17 shows his right forearm rotation as a swinger.
So, is Steve, a swinger with impact (hands) address not at mid body position?
Thanks man, it ain't easy. We need to help each other as best we can or none of us will make out of here alive.
It is so true!
IC T
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
back story to this post...I would like to thank 12piecebucket! if it were not for his posts on golfwrx and an experience with a morad instructor who deemed the golfing machine too complex, i would have never found the golfing machine and my golf game would still be in disarray. I would forever be searching for answers that were in the yellow book all along....
12piecebucket's pictures of tiger woods and david toms reminded me of this thread and david toms' particular case.
one day prior to any knowledge of TGM, I was reading an online post with pictures of andy plummer and mike bennett, I had no interest in attempting this--at the time--current swing fad "stack n' tilt" but was curious as to the theory and application behind the methodology. When looking at the pictures i noticed something i had never heard mentioned before in any golf publication. When i looked at my swing, my elbow was in front of my hip whereas(either plummer or bennett I don't remember who) was executing what i now know as push elbow. I looked at this difference of elbow positions and something went off in my head, i began to look at different players and noticed different elbow positions. This is what at first, lead me to the golfing machine. In researching these elbow positions (and forearm positions) i noticed something especially unusual about david toms' right forearm at impact. it was much more bent at impact than others. It was pointing beyond the plane line....
in this picture, david toms' right forearm is not in line with the clubshaft. The clubshaft is not being supported by the driving right arm, instead appears to be passively pulled through impact from a punch position. This is possible by a fully uncocked left wrist, a drop of the head in the downstroke, the preserving of the near fully bent right arm deep into the downstroke via the pivot--even up to impact, until the right arm is finally pulled through impact by the left arm as the pivot continues to turn, causing late extension of the arms. Like an accordion, that right arm bends and extends but with its effortless checkrein action. In toms' case, he does not rely on a driving right arm for power, he relies on the extremely late release of the arms and the flat left wrist being pulled through impact by the body power of the pivot train. Toms is not the only one with this move, older videos and pictures of hunter mahan had very similar moves and the same appearance of the forearm pointing beyond the plane line, drop of the head, very late extension of the arms and a pivot, that like the energizer bunny, just keeps on going.
aside from that explanation, here is my reasoning. If the right arm is that bent at impact and pointing beyond the plane line i do not think it is possible to drive with the right arm because when you attempt to drive the right arm it straightens in a straight line and when the shaft is not in line with the right forearm at impact it cannot be supported by it and if driven, would drive the club WELL outside the ball and plane. If you try to make a manipulative drive to keep it on a plane even if the pivot is perfectly timed to accomodate this... you automatically induce a guiding, pulling of the right arm by the left arm. the right tricep which extends the right arm in a straight line, is the muscle which powers the active #1 accumulator for the hitter. To me this would be an impossibility for toms....
Whip, I noticed the fully un cocked left wrist in that picture right away as well. Do you have more pics of Toms at impact. Was this a common thing for him. Doesn't that tell us he's lost #2 a little early creating a bit of a power leak? Sure can't argue with his success, I would LOVE to see him keep it going!
Great work here Whip!!!
Kevin
__________________
I could be wrong. I have been before, and will be again.
ALIGNMENT G.O.L.F.
Last edited by KevCarter : 12-03-2011 at 09:13 AM.
Reason: Edited: fat fingers and old eyes on an iPhone. :)
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