Lag is technique and the answer to "how do I get seemingly effortless - relative to hackers - power." It is not what powers the golf swing. It is what makes a swing powerful.
Golfie
What I meant was, he doesn't turn his shoulder 90 degrees to his "target line". In frame 3, he has as much shoulder turn as he ever gets...and it aint much! This is an awesome link by the way! I love the Tony Gwynn commentary. As a former baseball player I love stuff like this!
Of course, in your example, I concede there to be very little difference.
However, the single arm example excludes (without massive strength) the structural possibilities that having two hands on the club bring to bear. If, for instance, the left arm were rigidly attached to the sholder, there would be a large difference in flailing action as there would be much more angular momentum (from the turning body) driving the flail.
Any questions? Golfie
Yup! No, a statement more than a question.
If the left arm was rigidly attached to the shoulder it would not be a flail - more a spoke attached to a spindle.
And, whats more, the spoke and spindle in human terms is not capable of generating anywhere near the clubhead speed that a flail could.
Burner,
Seems that you may be miss identifying the major flail of the golf swing which is formed by the left arm and club. Alternatively you may be misinterpreting somehow that I would be suggesting, after much discussion of flailing that the rigid structure of arms would remove flailing. This is not the case. Think extensor action.
If however you are suggesting that the firm attachment of the left arm to shoulder excludes the flailing of a flail formed by the lever from the spine to shoulder (roughly) and the left arm, that is true but a secondary effect in power generation.
Lag is technique and the answer to "how do I get seemingly effortless - relative to hackers - power." It is not what powers the golf swing. It is what makes a swing powerful.
Golfie
What I meant was, he doesn't turn his shoulder 90 degrees to his "target line". In frame 3, he has as much shoulder turn as he ever gets...and it aint much! This is an awesome link by the way! I love the Tony Gwynn commentary. As a former baseball player I love stuff like this!
Trig,
Seeing as how most homerun hitters are dead pull hitters, even if he's starts off sqared away , he's still about 35 degrees closed to his target line to start.
Barry does have amazing lag. Seeing this is very humbling and explains why I could never hit a softball very far in the corporate league. After all these years of golf, I could never imagine trying to be so open at impact. As a result, poor rotation. a quitting stroke to be sure.
....Swinging: take a club in your left hand and, without rotating your hips or trunk, extend it as far back as you can. Now swing the assembly through the imaginary ball and see how much speed you have got and how you are compelled to allow the body to repond to the swinging arm in order for the motion to be completed. Listen for the "swoosh".
Repeat the process but with backswing torso rotation. Do you hear any difference in "swoosh" sound? No, I thought not, so what does that tell you?
Performing the same motions (Hitting) with your right arm only and your experience will be no different.
burner the above tells me why you have been so adament that the turning the hips doesn't add any acceleration...i hear a big "swoosh" difference doing the above with either arm and i'm willing to bet mj does as well...given your stated disdain of tension my guess is that you have slack so that when you turn the hips the torso->shoulder->arm->hand->club don't immediately follow along...
Seeing as how most homerun hitters are dead pull hitters, even if he's starts off sqared away , he's still about 35 degrees closed to his target line to start.
Barry does have amazing lag. Seeing this is very humbling and explains why I could never hit a softball very far in the corporate league. After all these years of golf, I could never imagine trying to be so open at impact. As a result, poor rotation. a quitting stroke to be sure.
Seems that you may be miss identifying the major flail of the golf swing which is formed by the left arm and club. Alternatively you may be misinterpreting somehow that I would be suggesting, after much discussion of flailing that the rigid structure of arms would remove flailing. This is not the case. Think extensor action.
If however you are suggesting that the firm attachment of the left arm to shoulder excludes the flailing of a flail formed by the lever from the spine to shoulder (roughly) and the left arm, that is true but a secondary effect in power generation.Golfie
Golfie,
I may have "misinterpreted" what you were saying and probably still do.
However, the point I was trying to make is that a rigid spoke/arm attached to a spindle/torso, which is what I thought you were referring to, would not generate anywhere near the speed by rotation of the spindle that our golfing flailis capable of.
Our golfing flail requires no rotary motion to generate, and transfer, its power from top to bottom. This is done by the straightening of the assembly to its in-line condition: arm power in hitting and centripetal force in swinging.
As Homer was fond of reminding us, the golf swing is a body transported - not powered - arm swing.
Ouch.
The rules of baseball requires the back foot to have contact to what is called a “rubber,” a rectangled shaped hard slab of rubber on a small hill called a mound. A pitcher does this by standing his shoulders perpendicular to the batter, not have them parallel like in cricket which is a running throw. A pitcher must make a stride - a forward motion - down and off the “rubber.” In order to make this slide off and down the hill or the mound, the front leg must lift and step forward. This becomes a weight transfer, what baseball players call “putting the hip into the pitch.” The pitchers shoulders do become square to the batter after the front leg lands after the stride. The front leg movement, the pitcher’s stride, is the weight transfer, pivot and power package of the pitch. A good pitcher does not throw flat long throws. 60 feet 6 inches. The pitch will move downward from the top of a high hand release, the wrist snap puts a spin on the ball and if well executed will “break” off its path a few inches from the batters whirling bat. Strike one!
Mike,
A Cricketer's throw, like a baseball pitch or baseball Outfielders throw, also begins from a position perpendicular, not square, to the intended line of flight of the ball.
Neither baseball Outfielders or Cricketers (who, arguably, throw as flat and fast as your average pitcher) find it necessary, or advantageous, to precede the release of the ball by the lifting, and waving about in the air, of the front foot. Such a motion has no mechanical advantage whatsoever, no matter how macho it appears to be.
...However, the point I was trying to make is that a rigid spoke/arm attached to a spindle/torso, which is what I thought you were referring to, would not generate anywhere near the speed by rotation of the spindle that our golfing flailis capable of.
Our golfing flail requires no rotary motion to generate, and transfer, its power from top to bottom. This is done by the straightening of the assembly to its in-line condition: arm power in hitting and centripetal force in swinging.
As Homer was fond of reminding us, the golf swing is a body transported - not powered - arm swing.
ah, i think here maybe is the misunderstanding...burner, i (and i think mj) are not saying that hip rotation TOTALLY power the stroke, just that if you use hip rotation to start the whole assembly accelerating (transport) and then ADD the acceleration of the "straightening of the assembly to its in-line condition" you can get higher accelerations than if you just do the later...if (and it can be a big IF imho) you impact the ball in the same manner both ways, the added acceleration will cause the ball to go farther...as a corollary, the more hip acceleration you add, the farther you can hit the ball...however the more hip acceleration you add (imho) the more difficult correct impact becomes and incorrect impact can lose you distance as well...as for throwing, i know baseball players are taught to line up their shoulders down the target line, step toward the target and have the shoulder and arm follow...don't cricket bowlers (correct term?) take steps before they throw?...same idea.
Golfie
that I would be suggesting, after much discussion of flailing that the rigid structure of arms would remove flailing. This is not the case. Think extensor action. 
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