By the way, since we are talking about pitchers...how about we mention batters!
Batters do not turn their shoulders 90 degrees! Yet they generate a lot of power with their bats.
How do they do that?
Having watched frame be frame video of Mark McGuire hitting a ball, the source of his power was pretty clear. He had a ton of "lag" in his bat and his hands were out in front of his "bat-head".
By the way, since we are talking about pitchers...how about we mention batters!
Batters do not turn their shoulders 90 degrees! Yet they generate a lot of power with their bats.
How do they do that?
Having watched frame be frame video of Mark McGuire hitting a ball, the source of his power was pretty clear. He had a ton of "lag" in his bat and his hands were out in front of his "bat-head".
Is this still the physics thread?
Not to mention McGuire and other great batters exhibit the right arm flying wedge.
By the way, since we are talking about pitchers...how about we mention batters!
Batters do not turn their shoulders 90 degrees! Yet they generate a lot of power with their bats.
How do they do that?
Having watched frame be frame video of Mark McGuire hitting a ball, the source of his power was pretty clear. He had a ton of "lag" in his bat and his hands were out in front of his "bat-head".
Is this still the physics thread?
Trigolt,
I'm sure that home run hitters have 90 degrees of shoulder rotation prior to impact - check out Barry Bonds:
Lag is technique and the answer to "how do I get seemingly effortless - relative to hackers - power." It is not what powers the golf swing. It is what makes a swing powerful.
A batter, like Lynn's golf stroke, just needs to complete the turn of the RIGHT shoulder and use its thrust to delivery the power package. The left just goes along for the ride. RH batter references.
"I really cannot take seriously all this stuff regarding TENSION OF THE LOWER BODY causing the upper body to move and am greatly surprised that, in these enlightened times, anyone else does."
Burner,
The tension which tugs the Shoulders into action is in the MID BODY.
Hogan's words - "he(the golfer) wants the mid-section of his body to be tightened up."
Here is Hogan doing a slo-mo demo of this "stuff", which you don't take seriously -
This is a small bite of a video with sound in which Hogan is showing and telling how the hip turn initiates the shoulder thrust because of this "tension connection" between the hips and the shoulders.
"I really cannot take seriously all this stuff regarding TENSION OF THE LOWER BODY causing the upper body to move and am greatly surprised that, in these enlightened times, anyone else does."
Burner,
The tension which tugs the Shoulders into action is in the MID BODY.
Hogan's words - "he(the golfer) wants the mid-section of his body to be tightened up."
Here is Hogan doing a slo-mo demo of this "stuff", which you don't take seriously -
This is a small bite of a video with sound in which Hogan is showing and telling how the hip turn initiates the shoulder thrust because of this "tension connection" between the hips and the shoulders.
MJ,
I hear you; and I see Hogan, in slow mo' with the full range of clubs.
Mid-body tension does not do anything other than cause discomfort. Like I said earlier, if you create tension and then relax there is no generation of force or initiation of movement; just relief from tension.
The musculature that is contracted in powering the backswing merely relaxes once that motion is completed and further effort in that direction is no longer needed; their opposing equivalents then contract in order to power the forward swing.
Muscles create tension (contract) to do their work. Release of that tension, slackening and thus restoring the muscle to its pre-stressed length, has no elastic or propelling effect.
Assuming that you are a Swinger, could you tell me what you think powers your golfers flail? Please be specific about the muscles involved.
Golfie
Golfie,
Not ducking the question but to answer it in full would merely diversify and prolong the argument; from which original we have already strayed afar.
Suffice it to say that the flail can, more than adequately, be powered without any hip or upper body rotation at all, be it by hitting or swinging.
Swinging: take a club in your left hand and, without rotating your hips or trunk, extend it as far back as you can. Now swing the assembly through the imaginary ball and see how much speed you have got and how you are compelled to allow the body to repond to the swinging arm in order for the motion to be completed. Listen for the "swoosh".
Repeat the process but with backswing torso rotation. Do you hear any difference in "swoosh" sound? No, I thought not, so what does that tell you?
Performing the same motions (Hitting) with your right arm only and your experience will be no different.
Not ducking the question but to answer it in full would merely diversify and prolong the argument; from which original we have already strayed afar.
Suffice it to say that the flail can, more than adequately, be powered without any hip or upper body rotation at all, be it by hitting or swinging.
Swinging: take a club in your left hand and, without rotating your hips or trunk, extend it as far back as you can. Now swing the assembly through the imaginary ball and see how much speed you have got and how you are compelled to allow the body to repond to the swinging arm in order for the motion to be completed. Listen for the "swoosh".
Repeat the process but with backswing torso rotation. Do you hear any difference in "swoosh" sound? No, I thought not, so what does that tell you?
Performing the same motions (Hitting) with your right arm only and your experience will be no different.
Burner,
Of course, in your example, I concede there to be very little difference.
However, the single arm example excludes (without massive strength) the structural possibilities that having two hands on the club bring to bear. If, for instance, the left arm were rigidly attached to the sholder, there would be a large difference in flailing action as there would be much more angular momentum (from the turning body) driving the flail.
Of course, in your example, I concede there to be very little difference.
However, the single arm example excludes (without massive strength) the structural possibilities that having two hands on the club bring to bear. If, for instance, the left arm were rigidly attached to the sholder, there would be a large difference in flailing action as there would be much more angular momentum (from the turning body) driving the flail.
Any questions? Golfie
Yup! No, a statement more than a question.
If the left arm was rigidly attached to the shoulder it would not be a flail - more a spoke attached to a spindle.
And, whats more, the spoke and spindle in human terms is not capable of generating anywhere near the clubhead speed that a flail could.
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