Compression?

[Yoda]

Threadjack complete.



All in fun with no sinester agenda.

Now back to our regular programming!

[mb6606]

Vertical and horizontal hinge both have very good ball compression characteristics.

Keeping the loft of the club out of the equation, the vertical hinge action itself will impose back spin while a horizontal hinge action will impose side spin. We're talking as perfec as it gets here, and then a horizontal hinge will produce a draw. This is layback without closing vs closing without layback.

If we're talking about a human golfer it is very difficult to anticipate that all other alingments can be the same. Dual Horizontal hinge has the largest clubhead to hands speed ratio, while vertical hinge has the smallest. So if the clubhead speed is the same, the vertical hinge will have greater hands speed, and thus a greater effective swing arch and more effective mass-velocity to back up the collision with the ball.

As long as the vertical hinge can keep up with the horizontal - which isn't very long - I guess you will get more ball compression due to the faster hands.

The question was based on all things being equal. The ball is on the clubface for 1/2 a millisecond. Therefore compression has to be equal. VH allows one to add loft versus HH. So for less compression the face would have to be layed back more at impact (therefore it is no longer equal).

[O.B.Left]

The question was based on all things being equal. The ball is on the clubface for 1/2 a millisecond. Therefore compression has to be equal. VH allows one to add loft versus HH. So for less compression the face would have to be layed back more at impact (therefore it is no longer equal).

Hey mb

But that wouldnt be "all things equal" exactly as you'd have to speed up Vertical's hands to get the clubspeed up to Horizontal's. The two arent "all things equal" assuming any #3 angle for the golfer standing on the tee.

The thing I dont get about the 1/2 millisecond logic is that its plenty of time for the ball get squished and rebound so why not roll on the face .......to varying amounts depending on layback or closing.

o.b.

[Yoda]

Somehow, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore.

[Yoda]

Keeping the loft of the club out of the equation, the vertical hinge action itself will impose back spin while a horizontal hinge action will impose side spin.

Busy week guys and may not be able to come back, but . .

Perfectly executed . . .

Both Vertical and Horizontal Action produce Backspin. This is what gets the ball in the air.

Neither produce a 'side spin'.

[mb6606]

Hey mb

But that wouldnt be "all things equal" exactly as you'd have to speed up Vertical's hands to get the clubspeed up to Horizontal's. The two arent "all things equal" assuming any #3 angle for the golfer standing on the tee.

The thing I dont get about the 1/2 millisecond logic is that its plenty of time for the ball get squished and rebound so why not roll on the face .......to varying amounts depending on layback or closing.

o.b.

"If two players wind up at impact separation with the clubhead, face and shaft in the exact same alignments all at the same speed and hitting the ball in the same spot on the face with every other alignment matching with the only difference being that one player arrived there after a Horizontal Hinge action and other player arrived there after a Vertical Hinge Action."

Exact same alignments, same spot on club face , same speed, etc.
The ball would have the exact same compression - how could it not?? That being said it is easier to add loft using a vertial hinge but that is not relevant to the question at presented.

[O.B.Left]

"If two players wind up at impact separation with the clubhead, face and shaft in the exact same alignments all at the same speed and hitting the ball in the same spot on the face with every other alignment matching with the only difference being that one player arrived there after a Horizontal Hinge action and other player arrived there after a Vertical Hinge Action."

Exact same alignments, same spot on club face , same speed, etc.
The ball would have the exact same compression - how could it not?? That being said it is easier to add loft using a vertial hinge but that is not relevant to the question at presented.

Hey mb.

I know that the question as posted is not the one you really want answered. Change the question if you want.......

To spell it out.........how can "the clubhead, face and shaft ....all at the same speed" happen given any # 3 angle? It cant. The butt end and the head are not traveling at the same speed for HH vs Angled vs VH. .......Its impossible.

So his question must change. Which makes things more apples vs oranges ......to my mind.

Sorta like two cars doing 60 mph....one a vw beatle in fourth gear the other a porsche.....ya they're both assumed to be going 60 but does that mean they are equally powerful in a general sense? Of course not. Does this make the Porsche's power advantage "irrelevant" .......no , of course not. HH is the Porsche in this example which relates to velocity only. Id suggest that there are other considerations to compression for HH vs VH beyond this point.

[Mike O]

I have too many answers to answer!
However, I'm in complete agreement with EDZ and OB Left.

[John Graham]

So, is the official answer that my hypothetical is an impossibility?

Even with a pitch?

or a chip?

Could I build an iron byron type machine to create it?

or is it against all the laws of physics that no combination of work or intelligence could make it happen?

JG

[BerntR]

Busy week guys and may not be able to come back, but . .

Perfectly executed . . .

Both Vertical and Horizontal Action produce Backspin. This is what gets the ball in the air.

Neither produce a 'side spin'.

Yoda,

In the big scheme of things it's the loft of the club that gets the ball airborne and produces the back spin, not the hinge action. And it is basically the difference between plane line and club face orientation that creates the side spin. I was taking those major spin contributors out of the equation to amplify the differences between the two hinge actions. The hinge action creates a little spin too.

Perfect compression means that the center of contact point between the ball and the club face remains the same through the impact interval. Which means that the ball adopts how the clubface rotates.

With a horizontal hinge the club and the ball rotates horizontally. The closing without layback. This is easy to see in 2-c-1 #2a, #2B, #3, the "swingers hinging". With a vertical hinge the club and the ball rotates vertically. Layback without closing. And that is illustrated in 2-c-2.

The axis of the hinge rotation is imposed on the ball. You can't have perfect ball compression otherwise.

I know you know this so perhaps I wasn't clear enough in my post above.