KOC - you wrote-: "How about the left arm? I believe it is definite not an independent pull as the left arm is to be swung, inert, to have master accumulator lag."
I have the Tom Tomasello 5-day TGM school videos and he clearly demonstrates that it is the left hand that pulls the arrow out of the quiver. The left hand holds the club's grip and pulls longitudinally on the grip as the left hand pulls the "arrow out of the quiver". What causes the left arm to move forward so that it causes the left hand to pull the arrow out of the quiver? In body-swingers, it is the downswing pivot action that pulls the left arm forward (via power accumulator #4). In arm swingers, who use a right arm action (ala Tom Tomasello), it is a right arm throw action that pushes on the PP#1 point and thereby causes the left arm to move forward => left hand pulls on the grip => arrow is pulled out of the quiver by the left hand.
KOC - you wrote-: "How about the left arm? I believe it is definite not an independent pull as the left arm is to be swung, inert, to have master accumulator lag."
I have the Tom Tomasello 5-day TGM school videos and he clearly demonstrates that it is the left hand that pulls the arrow out of the quiver. The left hand holds the club's grip and pulls longitudinally on the grip as the left hand pulls the "arrow out of the quiver". What causes the left arm to move forward so that it causes the left hand to pull the arrow out of the quiver? In body-swingers, it is the downswing pivot action that pulls the left arm forward (via power accumulator #4). In arm swingers, who use a right arm action (ala Tom Tomasello), it is a right arm throw action that pushes on the PP#1 point and thereby causes the left arm to move forward => left hand pulls on the grip => arrow is pulled out of the quiver by the left hand.
Jeff.
Personally I find it unatural to use the right forearm takeaway and then switch at the top to a left hand arrow out of the quiver. How does the right hand maintain the extensor action and the #3 pp must be directed straight line to your aiming point if the left has taken over?
Personally I find it unatural to use the right forearm takeaway and then switch at the top to a left hand arrow out of the quiver. How does the right hand maintain the extensor action and the #3 pp must be directed straight line to your aiming point if the left has taken over?
The right forearm takeaway as a term can be misleading. Basically Homer Kelley is linking the movement of the club on the inclined plane and that of the right forearm. Inorder to make the club move on the inclined plane, the right forearm must also be moving in 3 dimensions. Any onplane takeaway is a right forearm takeaway. It isn't nessesarily that the right forearm is what actively takes the club away.
For example lets say we we're to do a typical PGA pro pattern starting on the hands only plane... it is very possible that by holding the power package as a construction during the initial startup and the movement of the power package is created via a rotated shoulder turn with the right and left shoulder moving with a parallel to the original inclined plane that the club would move onplane. This would still be a right forearm takeaway because the right forearm is moving in 3 dimensions with relation to the inclined plane. This has a certain feeling of starting up with an almost 'heave' like action.
The aiming point concept and the left arm dragging the club longitudinally are not contradictory. Pp3 is always passive - it passively directs only. The swinger uses the pivot to pull the primary lever assembly longitudinally and ideally for the swinger he will increase his wristcock as this occurs which increases the lag pressure you will feel on the rotated pp3 - that clubhead must be felt and is your ultimate guide for impact. The swinger can increase the wristcock by the exact thought of pulling the club longitudinally - or as Homer Kelley says 'like an arrow from a quiver'.
. It isn't nessesarily that the right forearm is what actively takes the club away.
.
Matthew I have to disagree and Lynn should concur since I have LB on the MMOC video explaining it. The right forearm pickup (LB's term) is simply the right arm picking up the club. No need for any help or intervention from the left arm. You can easily pick the club up with the right forearm and put it perfectly on the turned shoulder plane (or any other plane).
You can use the left arm, shoulder or both hands to get to the turned shoulder plane by why complicate it?
Matthew I have to disagree and Lynn should concur since I have LB on the MMOC video explaining it. The right forearm pickup (LB's term) is simply the right arm picking up the club. No need for any help or intervention from the left arm. You can easily pick the club up with the right forearm and put it perfectly on the turned shoulder plane (or any other plane).
You can use the left arm, shoulder or both hands to get to the turned shoulder plane by why complicate it?
What I described was the right forearm takeaway of the golfing machine.
If that is what Lynn teaches or your interpretation of what lynn teaches would not change my thoughts on this. An appeal to popular thinking doesn't make something correct. However from what I know of Lynn's teachings, I don't think there is a conflict anyhow - best to let lynn answer that for himself.
The alternative to the right forearm takeaway is what Homer Kelley said is a 'shoulder turn takeaway' whereby the shoulder motion displaces the power package with an offplane rotation without the right forearm moving independantly in 3D. The offplane rotation then induces and the clubhead on an orbit inside of the plane line.
Any 3 dimensional startup made on onplane is done by the right forearm moving also in 3 dimensions - thats why it is manditory because without it - the precision is lost. For example - If you were doing the 'PGA tour style' putting stroke - thats still a right forearm takeaway even if the displacement of the power package is being done with the dual agent (shoulder motion).
The right forearm always traces the plane line with pp3 regardless if it is itself onplane or offplane whether it is 'held' in with relation to the power package like the example above, or is actively or passively used. However any correct startup requires the right forearm to move with a relationship to the inclined plane... that is the right forearm takeaway of the golfing machine.
I think that Mathew is 100% correct. The right forearm takeaway doesn't necessarily imply any active movement of the right forearm is terms of pulling power. It is primarily a monitoring activity that keeps the clubshaft "on plane".
Whatever, it is still only the left hand that grips the club, and can pull the "arrow out of the quiver" at the end of the backstroke. The right hand has two primary roles - applying extensor action at PP#1 and a SPL/clubhead lag monitoring functions at PP#3.
Whatever, it is still only the left hand that grips the club, and can pull the "arrow out of the quiver" at the end of the backstroke. The right hand has two primary roles - applying extensor action at PP#1 and a SPL/clubhead lag monitoring functions at PP#3.
Jeff.
Again, Jeff, you have not answered my previous question - which arm does a right-handed archer pull the arrow out in real world ?
As a newbie here, in case the left arm (as you said) is the correct answer anyhow (which I doubt sincerely), why the names of TGM golf swing thoughts as e.g. "pulling the arrow out of quiver" are misleading and unreal then ?
BTW, it's the first time I hear that the left hand grips the club and the right one does not.
I do not possess the Yellow Book but the info I am gathering there from you (and I know how serious and accurate student you usually are) does not make me closer to have it...
I do not possess the Yellow Book but the info I am gathering there from you (and I know how serious and accurate student you usually are) does not make me closer to have it...
Cheers
Darius, a serious student like yourself should have bought the book. You might have to "Unlearn" some of your previous info in order to learn what Homer intends...but it is a great trade off.
Anybody who has enjoyed Yoda's posts will enjoy them 10 times more if you have tried to read the book. Our generationhave th ebest opportunity to learn TGM through the book, internet and a generation of teachers (like Lynn) who had FIRST hand experience of HK himself. Chances like that should not be underestimated!
Anybody who has enjoyed Yoda's posts will enjoy them 10 times more if you have tried to read the book. Hit amazon.com...
Avoid Amazon for purchases of The Golfing Machine.
For some reason, the publisher doesn't offer the book through Amazon itself. Consequently, the only editions available are from linked re-sellers who price them richly (currently from $56.99 to 99.95). These merchants take great pride in their inventory: The $99.95 'bargain' came with this compelling comment: "NOT 1971 OR EARLIER EDITION. THIS IS THE LATEST EDITION!!!!!!!!!!!!!". Only the uninformed will take this bait.
The good news is that the 'latest edition' is in print and readily available from the publisher. I suggest you order directly -- and pay from $22 to $65 less -- at http://www.thegolfingmachine.com/theBook/buyBook.php.
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