Basic Motion Questions

[KnighT]

Good one, MikeO. Michael Hebron kinda 'justifies' lessons by 'creating a learning environment.' He calls it "Michael Hebron's school for learning golf."

I never played competative chess. Just online alot. I liked the 3 and 5 minute games. I have not played in a while. All my efforts have been focused on engineering my golfing machine.

Regarding the flail, this is how I use it (or at least I hope that is what it is). If you have ever gone fishing (not that bouring deep sea fishing where you just drop it down....when you actually cast the rod) then you already know the flail. Think about the handle of the rod, and the tip of the rod. You have the rod back, ready to send it forward. Left hand is on the bottom, right on top. Then, your brain sends a signal which initiates a very specific motion with the rod. If you get this motion wrong you do not send your fising lure where you intended. The proper motion is pulling down with the left hand, while simultaneously pushing with the right (very fine control and accuarcy comes from the right hand). This motion causes the handle of the rod to move back while the tip goes forward. There is a rotation point somewhere between the two hands. I think this is using leverage. After all, fishing rods and golf clubs are just class 3 levers. Locating the fulcrum is critical. To flail a golf club I use pressure points #2 and #3. The rotation point is somewhere inbetween. Visualize pp#2 moving the butt of the club one way while simultaneously moving #3 in the opposite direction, and see how the butt end of the club moves a few inches while the clubhead travels several feet. This is using leverage to produce angular motion, I think.


I use my right forearm to take the club back. Hitting or swinging. Just fan the forearm (Like clapping), and trace your straight plane line. Check out 7-3 for this, especially the 'magical' last paragraph. The major difference is the loading. The best way for me to load the lag is by differentiating the two with their own specific feel. Swinging = rope handle, hitting = axe handle. They are very different. When I feel the rope handle, I can sense a tight line, just like a rope, from my left shoulder that goes directly to pressure point #3. For me, this only tightens at the end of my backswing. My right arm feels more 'out' and longer than when hitting...I think this is due to the dual horizontal hinging. Once I get this sensation it is pretty automatic because my brain can sense this straight line, so it knows to just give it a little tug. Maintain that tight rope and I end up in follow through with horizontal hinging...automatically (CF pulls the club head).

When hitting, at the end of the backswing I load the primary lever onto pressure point #3. This feels alot tighter with the right arm. Like a rattle snake all coiled up ready to strike, or a boxer in the clinch loading up a short powerful knockout punch (Like the 'crap smacker' vid). Then I use my right arm to thrust down and out.

For me, it is critical to combine both of these with the flail.


Trane, you will develop your power accumulators with training. Just a little advice I would give to you is don't focus on one accumulator back then another forward. Just use your right forearm flying wedge to pull to the top, let everything else follow while keeping your feet set in the ground. The sensation I get when I relax, and try to keep both feet set in the ground...then pull the right forearm with proper fanning and tracing, I sense 2 distinct points at the top. The inside of my right foot, and pressure point #3....BOTH points have loaded pressure. I think this might be 'stopping the backswing with your feet'....just another thing that I find with basic motion that is still there in total motion. I think that is cool.

One thing I want to make clear to everybody is that these are just baby steps. I am just starting to work this stuff out, and it is a direct result of studying the book and this site and listening to the great advice from everybody on the forum. I am thankful for all the help I have received. You have all helped me progress more that I ever thought possible. I extend a very big thank you to Yoda, he made all this possible for me, and all of us. He is the tie that binds us all together. I hope there is still much more to come. Thanks again, everybody.

Yikes, another long one....sorry if I am long winded guys, it just flows out sometimes.

[Mike O]

I thought Accum #4 is the left arm/shoulder & if I'm reading it correctly, it is one of the 22 components of the basic motion curriculum. There is no pivot, no shoulder turn, so the way I read it you have to take the lag (maintaining the pressure points) back towards the ball and down plane from the ball with either the #1 or #4 accumulator. I sure do hope I don't have this messed up or I will have to reincubate some stuff. Let me know guys...TY

I haven't read TKnight's prior post to my post but addressing you post Trane- Mechanically you are absolutely correct- right arm Accumulator #1 etc. But here is the key point- you don't take the club back by thinking about the right arm- or say the left arm- you take your hands back. Are only #1 and #4 moving in this basic motion- YES- but you have zeroed out #2 and #3 and the pivot so when you take the hands back #1 and #4 are the only things that will move.

Here is a quote from your recent post "so the way I read it you have to take the lag (maintaining the pressure points) back towards the ball and down plane from the ball with either the #1 or #4 accumulator"

So it reads as if you are thinking about #1 or #4 as what you focus on moving. They are the accumulators but you don't think let's take my left arm back or my left arm down- you are focusing on the hands going back - the accumulators are in essence "in the background". Now, depends what stage you are at - you may need to focus on the arms to learn the movement. So it's important to differentiate between learning - grooving components and what's happening in the fully functioning ultimate efficient athletic movement. So much like the last paragraph in 10-24-F- focusing on your arm motion could be a "Relative Translation Procedure" to a fully hand controlled pivot- (or in this case a hand controlled basic motion)

[Martee]

I guess I am still out to lunch, after reviewing my notes, etc I still ??? Some of the comments seems to have jumped beyond Basic Motion.

Mike0, enjoy the posts, always learning, keep them coming.

In 12-5-0 it is stated, Where applicable, interpret the items per the basic Stroke Pattern, that Hitting or Swinging. Either 12-1 or 12-2--not both at the same time.

In my feeble incubator, I read this to mean if I was going to Hit, then I could use PP#1 while allow PP#3 to monitor lag. Since where is no shoulder turn and with swinging I must rely on using PP#2 and use PP#3 to monitor lag. This seems to work for me, but this seems to be a bit different than I am reading. Frankly I have yet to master the hitting motion, right arm drive and using only PP#3 and be able to monitor lad and create extensor action. Maybe my grip is at fault, maybe I am not applying the finger correctly or tight enough. I tried again today and was unsuccessful, though I know not to expect instant success, but it wasn't that it didn't feel right, it didn't work as a gap was often created at PP#1. Ugly. Maybe my hands are just too loose.

Somewhere, sometime Yoda had written that Basic Motion should first be learned with just using the Hands as the starting place.

I get the feeling that I have been doing this wrong or not as it should be if I am to follow the basic motion.

Guess I will sit out and read somemore. In search...

[Yoda]

One thing I want to make clear to everybody is that these are just baby steps. I am just starting to work this stuff out, and it is a direct result of studying the book and this site and listening to the great advice from everybody on the forum. I am thankful for all the help I have received. You have all helped me progress more that I ever thought possible. I extend a very big thank you to Yoda, he made all this possible for me, and all of us. He is the tie that binds us all together. I hope there is still much more to come. Thanks again, everybody.

Great post, KnighT, and thank you for the comments quoted above. Someone recently referred to LynnBlakeGolf.com as a Golf Instruction "Classroom," and your post is proof positive Team LBG is making a difference.

I like that!

Oh, and about that "I hope there is still much more to come."

Not to worry...

There is!

[danny_shank]

Interesting thread lots of good stuff to learn here.

One thing i've been confused about with basic motion is the power source. As the pivot is zeroed out and the swinger uses #4 accumulator is this not an independant left arm motion. Which is what we actually try to avoid in total motion? I've tried zeroing out the pivot and to me it doesn't feel right. The only way i can get a nice swinging sensation is starting the downsing with my feet and having a little pivot.

Can anybody help enlighten me?

Cheers Danny

[comdpa]

Interesting thread lots of good stuff to learn here.

One thing i've been confused about with basic motion is the power source. As the pivot is zeroed out and the swinger uses #4 accumulator is this not an independant left arm motion. Which is what we actually try to avoid in total motion? I've tried zeroing out the pivot and to me it doesn't feel right. The only way i can get a nice swinging sensation is starting the downsing with my feet and having a little pivot.

Can anybody help enlighten me?

Cheers Danny

For the zero pivot stroke of 12-5-1, the swinger would use 10-3-D, Pull Minor and the hitter would use 10-3-K, Bat Minor.

I believe you may have confused the Bat Minor with its elder brother the Pitch Basic Stroke per 10-3-B, thus making it feel "unright".

Another reason why it doesnt feel right, I can only offer the answer: 'Habit'.

For me to have extraneous movement during a 12-5-1 stroke, pivot or otherwise, would feel very alien.

[danny_shank]

Thanks for the reply compda, but i am still pulling the with the left arm with zero pivot. The feeling that doesn't feel right is because the left arm is not inert and is not being propelled by the pivot as in total motion. Because it's moving itself in zero pivot it has muscular tension. I'm a bit stuck at the moment. Because is feels as if it;s ingraining a habit (i.e starting the downswing with mucsular effort of the left arm) that i don't want in my full swing.

[KnighT]

Thanks for the reply compda, but i am still pulling the with the left arm with zero pivot. The feeling that doesn't feel right is because the left arm is not inert and is not being propelled by the pivot as in total motion. Because it's moving itself in zero pivot it has muscular tension. I'm a bit stuck at the moment. Because is feels as if it;s ingraining a habit (i.e starting the downswing with mucsular effort of the left arm) that i don't want in my full swing.

Danny,

This should be the information you are looking for. There is nobody better to get this from than the man himself:

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...hlight=release

Yoda On the Basic Motion (Stage One) -- Demonstration and Explanation

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I like what I see in this Basic Motion Stroke (12-5-1 / Hitting Pattern).

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/gallery/files/yoda_basic/

The Basic Motion (Stage One) involves a miniaturized Stroke (12-0) -- approximately two feet back and two feet through. It puts in place the Basic Body Position and the Power Package alignments. It is a One-Accumulator Stroke, and that one Accumulator may be either the Right Arm (Accumulator #1 / Hitting) or the Left ( Accumulator #4 / Swinging).

I have elected to begin the Stroke from the Half-and-Half Fix (10-8-C). Here, the Body is in Standard Address Position, and the Hands are in their Impact Location and Position. This is the second of four Address Position alternatives listed in 10-9-0; namely, "Both at selected Impact" (10-9-0-2).

Let's examine this Selected Impact Address Position (10-9-B) and its Power Package alignments and then the Basic Stroke itself.

The Body

1. Square Stance and Plane Line.

2. Feet close together with Weight slightly toward heels.

3. Appropriate Knee and Waist Bend.

4. Hips Square.

5. Head centered.

The Arms

1. In Normal Position, i.e., Left Arm Straight and Right Arm Bent (6-A-4).

2. Right Forearm On Plane (2-F).

3. Left Arm and Right Forearm Flying Wedges established and properly aligned (6-B-3-0-1).

The Hands

1. Strong Single-Action Grip (10-2-B).

2. In Impact Location.

3. Left Wrist Flat.

The Club

1. Forward-Leaning Clubshaft.

2. Clubface Square.

The Stroke

1. Only one of the Arm Accumulators (Right Arm or Left) is active in this Stage One. The Hand Action Accumulators (Left Wrist Cock and Uncock and Left Hand Turn and Roll) are introduced in Stage Two (Acquired Motion). I have chosen to use the Right Arm and the bending and straightening of the Right Elbow to lift and lower the Left Arm (7-3) and to provide the Basic Thrust of the Stroke. Thus, this is a Hitting Stroke. Had I elected to Swing, I would have used my Left Arm to Pull the Club through Impact (Pull Minor Basic Stroke / 10-3-D). Also, I may have used the Standard Address Position with an Extensor Action Takeaway (6-B-1-D) to Flatten the Left Wrist (and Bend the Right) in Start-Up. Had that been the case, Backstroke Arm Motion would have been minimal. Downstroke action and alignments would have remained the same.

2. Note that my Right Shoulder moves little, if at all, throughout the Stroke. That's because I am using my bending Right Arm -- and not my rocking Body -- to move the Club away from the Ball. In Start Up, I apply Extensor Action against Pressure Point #1 (heel of the Right Hand against the Left Hand thumb), and I use my Right Forearm and bending Right Elbow to "Carry" (7-9) the Left Arm and Club (Primary Lever Assembly) to the Top (Up, Back and In in a true Three-Dimensional Start-Up). The Right Forearm Fans (about the Elbow) and Traces the Straight Plane Line. Had this been a Swing, I would have used a "Swing-Back" Motion instead of the Hitter's "Carry-Back" Motion. Also, when using Standard Address position of the Hands, I would initiate Extensor Action using Pressure Point #3 [Right Hand index finger] to pull the Left Arm and Clubshaft In-Line. But no matter which Motion is employed, the geometry of the Right Arm and Elbow Action -- how they 'look' to an observer -- is identical. All this is in stark contrast to most golfers whose Basic Motion is to freeze their Right Arm and Elbow and then to rock their Body back-and-forth to move the Club (Paw Minor Basic Stroke / 10-3-H).

3. During the Start Down, I Load my bent Right Elbow against Pressure Point #3 (Drive Loading / 10-19-A). From the Top, I simply Push radially (sidewise) the entire Left Arm and Club Assembly through Impact (Right Arm Throw / 10-20-B). When Swinging, I Load my Level Left Wrist against Pressure Point #2, the last three fingers of the Left Hand (Drag Loading / 10-19-C). I then simply Pull longitudinally (lengthwise) only the Club itself through Impact (Left Wrist Throw / 10-20-E).

4. At Impact, I have returned precisely to my Half-and-Half Fix Address Position alignments. The Body -- including the Head -- has remained Motionless and the Power Package (Arms, Hands and Club) has returned to its Impact alignments. Compare Photos #1 and #14. They are identical.

5. Through Impact, my Right Elbow Drive-Out against Pressure Point #3 (and possibly #1) has automatically produced Angled Hinge Action (10-10-C). That is, the Flat Left Wrist has remained perpendicular (Vertical) to the Angled Plane of the Stroke. This Action is executed as a 'No Roll' Feel and produces a 'Half-Roll' of the Clubface at the end of the Follow-Through. In contrast, the Swinger's Centrifugal Force Throw-Out will automatically produce Horizontal Hinge Action (10-10-D). That is, the Flat Left Wrist will remain perpendicular (Vertical) to the Horizontal Plane. This Action is executed as a 'Roll' Feel and produces a 'Full-Roll' of the Clubface. All Hinge Actions MUST be executed on the Straight Line Delivery Line. This is the essential requirement for all Golf Strokes and why only Items #22 and #39 are capitalized in the Mechanical Checklist For All Strokes (12-3-0).

6. My bent Right Elbow at Impact continues its Drive toward the Plane Line (NOT toward the Target!) during the Follow-Through (1-L-10 and -15). The Angled Hinge Action has insured that the Left Arm and Clubshaft have remained In-Line and that there is perfect Rhythm (RPM).

7. The Stroke concludes when my Right Arm has fully-straightened (6-G-0-C). This is the end of the Follow-Through (Section 11), and because it is also the end of the Stroke, it constitutes the Finish (Section 12). Since the Thrust has continued Down Plane until the Right Elbow has fully-straightened, there properly has been no 'Upstroke.' This despite the fact that the Club itself has passed Low Point (opposite the Left Shoulder) and has begun its own Upward, Inward and Forward journey to the Finish.

Work on your Basic Motion. Pay attention to each Component and its alignments. This is the foundation-stone of your Stroke and of your Game.

It is no less than The Gateway to your best Golf.
__________________
Yoda

[danny_shank]

Thanks for the quote KnighT. Yoda certaintly gives a very comprehensive description of basic motion. Unfortunately for me it only confirms my confusion.

It's frustrating for me because i love the idea of basic motion. The fact you can practice critical components in such a short swing. I already feel i have gotten to know the pressure points much better by doing it. The problem is my one of my biggest problems when playing is over accelerating via independent left arm motion and i'm afraid practicing basic motion will just enhance this.

[Amen Corner]

Thanks for the quote KnighT. Yoda certaintly gives a very comprehensive description of basic motion. Unfortunately for me it only confirms my confusion.

It's frustrating for me because i love the idea of basic motion. The fact you can practice critical components in such a short swing. I already feel i have gotten to know the pressure points much better by doing it. The problem is my one of my biggest problems when playing is over accelerating via independent left arm motion and i'm afraid practicing basic motion will just enhance this.

Danny,

Here comes some questions that might help clear up the problem

Do you feel you have enough extensor action?
Are you left or right handed?
Is the right hand positioned correct on the grip?
Which pressure point do you focus on?

IMO
Use only the right hand at start up.
Only use Acc #1 in basic motion so you can obtain the 3D impact (DOWN,out and forward), and do it by using pressurepoint #1.

Take a look at 6-B-1-0 and 6-B-1-D

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