let's get a grip

[jdtoyou]

MJ

Hmmmm....interesting. I do find it easier to build lag for ME (right now) with the stronger/Tour grip and swinging with the left arm. But I have been fooling around with trying to hit with the right and a more neutral grip (a la Manzella). Well....like I said, TGM is all new to me I'm going for a lesson with a TGM instructor on Wednesday and I'll be curious to see what he has to say in general. Thanks for your time.

[vj]

Thanks mizuno Joe. Only one of the tour players I work with has a "strong grip" and he won a couple of weeks ago on the nationwide tour after "weakening" his grip.

I just don't see most of the tour players playing with strong grips. I see lots of FLW at the top and Faces which are "square" in their hands. I do see lots of horizontal hinges and that is where my grip questions come from.

An angled hinge is going to have the face laying back as it closes- so I push my long stuff and pull my short stuff. Vertical motion will have the face laying back and not closing. The horizontal hinge will control the trajectory and if the grip fits the direction as well.

Hinges and grips are a passion for me. Keep the questions and answers coming. Thanks again for sharing the knowledge.

Trolio

[Yoda]

I am an e.m. with a couple of hundred hours spent studying TGM. One of my hardest items of study are the grips set forth in TGM. Manzella's grip as someone called it in an earlier post is the grip which I deem neutral or strong single action. Can the master of grip types come out of the closet.

VJ, as usual, is a study in understatement.

Just to clue everybody in, vj is none other than the true Boss of the Moss V.J. Trolio, a fine player and instructor; a student of TGM; and co-inventor of The Putting Arc, currently one of golfdom's hottest training aids. I had the privilege of meeting V.J. personally at the 2005 PGA Merchandise Show in Orlando and am proud to have him aboard this expeditionary vessel.

Thanks, V.J., for your passion for the Game; for your commitment to excellence; and for posting on our site!

And now, y'all: Go visit VJ's website at www.theputtingarc.com.

P.S. My favorite testimonial:

• "It made me over five million dollars - that's how I know it works."
  
  -- PGA Tour Multiple Winner

[MizunoJoe]

vj,

By strong, I'm not talking the Azinger or even Couples extreme, but rather the LW not vertical with the left hand turned somewhat on top of the grip so that the V points more or less at the Right Shoulder, and the left thumb not on top of the grip. The grip is underneath the left heel pad. And, the thumb is snugged up to hand.

I've seen few tour players with a grip that doesn't meet that definition of strong. One of that few is Nicklaus, who while showing 2.5 knuckles, has a slight gap between the thumb and hand. Perhaps you could tell us some on tour who have a vertical left hand/wrist.

[vj]

Thanks Mizuno Joe. I don't want you too think I am being rude. I am not. This last post clears a lot up for me.

Through video I feel sneed, hogan, sarazen (although his left thumb wasn't on the shaft) all played with the left hand more vertical on the shaft.

Doug Barron, Brent Geiberger, Chucky Three stix, and Els all play with grips turned more vertical I feel. It even seemed that Tiger played with a grip turned more vertical during his "killing spree" a couple of years ago.

Had a convesation with the Cajun Crusher (Rob Noel) last night. He is the reason I teach today and a great mentor, but don't tell him I said that. He explained the difference as the left hand being vertical to a horizontal plane and vertical to an angled plane.

He explained it this way, Take your left arm and extend it out in front of you. Your left hand should be vertical to a horizontal plane. Now move your LEFT arm to the RIGHT about thirty degrees. Drop your left arm. "It looks turned doesn't it," he said. "Yes," I agreed, but it wasn't.

So the hand can sit on the club with a pp1, pp3, and accumulator 1 all sitting on the aft of the shaft.

THE DIFFICULTY IN DECIPHERING COMPONENTS BY YOURSELF IS THE INDIVIDUALS OWN TAKE ON WHAT IS ACTUALLY MEANT. HAVING YOUR HAND TURNED "STRONG" IN MY MIND HAS THE LEFT THUMB SITTING COMPLETELY DOWN THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE SHAFT. THIS WOULD MEAN THE LEFT HAND WOULD NEED TO TURNED TO GET THERE.

See guys I can learn. It only took two weeks for me to understand. And yes, I did ride a short bus to school but ----- I am not hard headed.


Now then, why so many grips. What did MR. Kelley mean when he said you can change your grip any time for better directional control. What about the hinge? What about impact fix alignments? What about the swivel?

Thanks again for letting me hang out.

[MizunoJoe]

vj,

Sorry for using "strong" in a too liberal fashion - only Azinger and maybe a few others have a grip with the thumb on the back of the shaft. I would certainly never do that! Maybe "non-vertical" would be a better term. With a vertical left wrist and the thumb "snugged", the thumb is on top of the shaft and is linear to it. This restricts LW cock. By just rotating the Right Hand enough to get the base of the thumb pad off the top of the grip, you get maximum LW cocking potential. For me, it gives about 2.5 knuckles showing, which gives me about the same result as the so-called "neutral" grip obtained by letting the left arm hang at the side naturally and taking hold of the club.