C.O.A.M where the rubber meets the road or you hope it does.

[12 piece bucket]

Read this guys . . . it has HUGE implications in the golf stroke. Mr. Kelley was intimately familiar with this principle . . . you should be too. Here's something I copied from another website http://csep10.phys.utk.edu/astr161/l...ys/angmom.html. . . pay PARTICULAR attention to what happens as radius increases and decreases and how momentum is conserved. Also keep in mind this is in a CLOSED SYSTEM. Hopefully your system ain't closed!!! A hint . . . pressure point pressure . . . Read this and let's discuss in relation to G.O.L.F. and also Drive vs. Drag Loading . . .

Holla Back.

Conservation of Angular
Momentum



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Our theory for the origin of the Solar System is a very old one with some modern innovations called the Nebular Hypothesis. A crucial ingredient in the nebular hypothesis is the conservation of angular momentum.

Angular Momentum
Objects executing motion around a point possess a quantity called angular momentum. This is an important physical quantity because all experimental evidence indicates that angular momentum is rigorously conserved in our Universe: it can be transferred, but it cannot be created or destroyed. For the simple case of a small mass executing uniform circular motion around a much larger mass (so that we can neglect the effect of the center of mass) the amount of angular momentum takes a simple form. As the adjacent figure illustrates the magnitude of the angular momentum in this case is L = mvr, where L is the angular momentum, m is the mass of the small object, v is the magnitude of its velocity, and r is the separation between the objects.

Ice Skaters and Angular Momentum
This formula indicates one important physical consequence of angular momentum: because the above formula can be rearranged to give v = L/(mr) and L is a constant for an isolated system, the velocity v and the separation r are inversely correlated. Thus, conservation of angular momentum demands that a decrease in the separation r be accompanied by an increase in the velocity v, and vice versa. This important concept carries over to more complicated systems: generally, for rotating bodies, if their radii decrease they must spin faster in order to conserve angular momentum. This concept is familiar intuitively to the ice skater who spins faster when the arms are drawn in, and slower when the arms are extended; although most ice skaters don't think about it explictly, this method of spin control is nothing but an invocation of the law of angular momentum conservation.

[12 piece bucket]

Think about this stuff with regards to the Pulley Diameter at the end of the Endless Belt apparatus . . . . In addition consider that you ain't no skater on "frictionless" ice where no "torque" (lag pressure) is being applied. You hopefully still have thrust on your side. But again consider the amount of loading you place on the system in this regard and how much certain different pulley diameters can accomodate.

The moment of inertia of an object about a given axis describes how difficult it is to change its angular motion about that axis. For example, consider two discs of the same mass, one large and one small in radius. Assuming that there is uniform thickness and mass distribution, the larger radius disc requires more effort to accelerate it (i.e. change its angular motion) because its mass is effectively distributed further from its axis of rotation. Conversely, the smaller radius disc takes less effort to accelerate it because its mass is distributed closer to its axis of rotation. Quantitatively, the larger disc has a larger moment of inertia, whereas the smaller disc has a smaller moment of inertia.

The moment of inertia has two forms, a scalar form I (used when the axis of rotation is known) and a more general tensor form that does not require knowing the axis of rotation. The scalar moment of inertia I is often called simply the "moment of inertia".

The moment of inertia can also be called the mass moment of inertia (especially by mechanical engineers) to avoid confusion with the second moment of area, which is sometimes called the moment of inertia (especially by structural engineers) and denoted by the same symbol I. The easiest way to differentiate these quantities is through their units.

In addition, the moment of inertia should not be confused with the polar moment of inertia, which is a measure of an object's ability to resist torsion (twisting).

Conservation of angular momentum allows athletes such as ice skaters, divers, and gymnasts to manipulate their rotation by altering their moment of inertia. For example, consider spinning ice skaters who pull in their arms. Since the ice is nearly frictionless, the angular momentum should stay constant during their spin. When they pull in their arms, the skaters concentrate their mass closer to the rotation axis, decreasing their moment of inertia. To keep the angular momentum constant, the angular velocity ω increases, resulting in a faster spin

[Bagger Lance]

Bucket - I'm putting you in the lab.

Yer sick dude. Seriously...
This time a small town in North Carolina is going to sacrifice it's electricity for your treatment.

But "sick" according to my 20 year old son, is supposed to be...uhh...righteous.

If you want to avoid the "treatment" again, please cite your sources.

Oh and lest I forget, MikeO has a whip and is very good at controlling MOI with it.

[neil]

So if your arms are short your hands need to travel faster than if they were longer to produce the same speed.

[12 piece bucket]

So if your arms are short your hands need to travel faster than if they were longer to produce the same speed.

Not exactly where I was going with that . . .

Consider the following three submissions . . .

1. Conservation of angular momentum allows athletes such as ice skaters, divers, and gymnasts to manipulate their rotation by altering their moment of inertia. For example, consider spinning ice skaters who pull in their arms. Since the ice is nearly frictionless, the angular momentum should stay constant during their spin. When they pull in their arms, the skaters concentrate their mass closer to the rotation axis, decreasing their moment of inertia. To keep the angular momentum constant, the angular velocity ω increases, resulting in a faster spin

The Momentum should be constant in absence of torque on the system (in our case Thrust). So as a result when your Accumulators are in their out of line condition it is easier to accelerate them. But on the down stroke they are releasing . . . so it its the opposite of the skater pulling in her arms. The system in absence of thrust would slow down. But you have thrust . . . or better yet . . . YOU MUST HAVE THRUST in order to combat the Conservation of Angular Momentum. That is why maintaining your Pressure Point Pressure is an Imperative. And also why the flat left wrist is of great importance. If you flip you are picking up speed but at the detriment of RADIUS. You want to put the FULL RADIUS on the ball through Impact. Thus the importance of Rhythm and the Flat Left Wrist. It is RADIUS POWER man.

2. the moment of inertia of an object about a given axis describes how difficult it is to change its angular motion about that axis. For example, consider two discs of the same mass, one large and one small in radius. Assuming that there is uniform thickness and mass distribution, the larger radius disc requires more effort to accelerate it (i.e. change its angular motion) because its mass is effectively distributed further from its axis of rotation. Conversely, the smaller radius disc takes less effort to accelerate it because its mass is distributed closer to its axis of rotation. Quantitatively, the larger disc has a larger moment of inertia, whereas the smaller disc has a smaller moment of inertia

In this statement consider the different discs as the different Pulley diameters we G.O.L.F.ers have as options. When the straight line motion diverts in to rotational motion of a small pulley the club WHIPS around the pulley because it is easily accelerated due to the mass being closer to the center of rotation. However with a large Pulley more hand speed is required because the mass is by definition farther from the center of rotation. But at the same time this works with you because you have more inertia and thus your Rhythm is easier to maintain with a larger Pulley. So the larger pulley is more about geometry and the small more about physics at the potential destruction of geometry if there is too much load placed on the system.

3. because the above formula can be rearranged to give v = L/(mr) and L is a constant for an isolated system, the velocity v and the separation r are inversely correlated. Thus, conservation of angular momentum demands that a decrease in the separation r be accompanied by an increase in the velocity v, and vice versa.

Note above that velocity and radius are inversely proportional. To you this means as the Lever Assembly is extended, the radius is INCREASING but the Velocity is DECREASING . . . but the Momentum is conserved in a system isolated from thrust. Mr. Kelley believed that this inevitable deceleration could be lessened by maintaining the pressure on the pressure point and driving the club fully down and fully out on-plane not disrupting the orbit.

[neil]

Sorry Bucket, I was being facetious.
Good post -that should clear the fog for a few

[Yoda]

Great posts, Bucket. Thanks!

[Delaware Golf]

Not exactly where I was going with that . . .

Consider the following three submissions . . .

1. Conservation of angular momentum allows athletes such as ice skaters, divers, and gymnasts to manipulate their rotation by altering their moment of inertia. For example, consider spinning ice skaters who pull in their arms. Since the ice is nearly frictionless, the angular momentum should stay constant during their spin. When they pull in their arms, the skaters concentrate their mass closer to the rotation axis, decreasing their moment of inertia. To keep the angular momentum constant, the angular velocity ω increases, resulting in a faster spin

The Momentum should be constant in absence of torque on the system (in our case Thrust). So as a result when your Accumulators are in their out of line condition it is easier to accelerate them. But on the down stroke they are releasing . . . so it its the opposite of the skater pulling in her arms. The system in absence of thrust would slow down. But you have thrust . . . or better yet . . . YOU MUST HAVE THRUST in order to combat the Conservation of Angular Momentum. That is why maintaining your Pressure Point Pressure is an Imperative. And also why the flat left wrist is of great importance. If you flip you are picking up speed but at the detriment of RADIUS. You want to put the FULL RADIUS on the ball through Impact. Thus the importance of Rhythm and the Flat Left Wrist. It is RADIUS POWER man.

2. the moment of inertia of an object about a given axis describes how difficult it is to change its angular motion about that axis. For example, consider two discs of the same mass, one large and one small in radius. Assuming that there is uniform thickness and mass distribution, the larger radius disc requires more effort to accelerate it (i.e. change its angular motion) because its mass is effectively distributed further from its axis of rotation. Conversely, the smaller radius disc takes less effort to accelerate it because its mass is distributed closer to its axis of rotation. Quantitatively, the larger disc has a larger moment of inertia, whereas the smaller disc has a smaller moment of inertia

In this statement consider the different discs as the different Pulley diameters we G.O.L.F.ers have as options. When the straight line motion diverts in to rotational motion of a small pulley the club WHIPS around the pulley because it is easily accelerated due to the mass being closer to the center of rotation. However with a large Pulley more hand speed is required because the mass is by definition farther from the center of rotation. But at the same time this works with you because you have more inertia and thus your Rhythm is easier to maintain with a larger Pulley. So the larger pulley is more about geometry and the small more about physics at the potential destruction of geometry if there is too much load placed on the system.

3. because the above formula can be rearranged to give v = L/(mr) and L is a constant for an isolated system, the velocity v and the separation r are inversely correlated. Thus, conservation of angular momentum demands that a decrease in the separation r be accompanied by an increase in the velocity v, and vice versa.

Note above that velocity and radius are inversely proportional. To you this means as the Lever Assembly is extended, the radius is INCREASING but the Velocity is DECREASING . . . but the Momentum is conserved in a system isolated from thrust. Mr. Kelley believed that this inevitable deceleration could be lessened by maintaining the pressure on the pressure point and driving the club fully down and fully out on-plane not disrupting the orbit.

Can you site your sources of where Mr. Kelley believe that and/or believe this? If they're from the book please site section and/or page numbers.

Thanks,

DG

[12 piece bucket]

Can you site your sources of where Mr. Kelley believe that and/or believe this? If they're from the book please site section and/or page numbers.

Thanks,

DG

It's not all wrapped up in one neat package. The meat of it is mostly found in the 7th Edition in 2-K and 2-P. 6-E-2 in the 7th also is applicable. If you have any questions on any specific items just let me know because Mr. Kelley nailed it all down in the book . . . but it's all over the place. Good place to start is the Glossary . . .

MOMENTUM TRANSFER Example – the hammer throw.
Mechanical – An appendage acquiring motion by reason of being attached to a large, central rotating body.
Golf – the rotating Body (Pivot) accelerating and sustaining the Lever Assembly motion by the Throw-Out Action of Centrifugal Force and reducing the effect of Conservation of Angular Momentum in proportion to the difference in Club and Body Mass.

Also, the following sections are applicable as well, but they must be based in an understanding of 2-P and 2-K to really come together in regards to Conservation of Angular Momentum. The picture in 2-K is good to with the Acceleration, Momentum and Deceleration phases.

6-C-2-B ANGULAR ACCELERATION The Clubhead “overtaking” speed is governed by the Law of Conservation of Angular Momentum whereby the increased Mass resulting from any extension of the Swing Radius decelerates the hands and unless they are supported by Power Package Thrust (6-B-1) or Throw Out Action (2-K), can result in great loss of Clubhead Speed. Rely on Clubhead Lag to meter out the necessary support for the Primary Lever Assembly. Strictly speaking, any increase in the product of Mass times Velocity is Acceleration whether or not the Speed is changed. But the formula for Kinetic Energy gives Velocity the greater value. And, actually, the acceptable tolerance in the Ball-to-Clubhead weight ratio is quite small.

6-C-2-C IMPACT CUSHION The prestressed Clubshaft will resist the added weight of the ball during Impact, instead of the cushioning the impact with an unstressed Clubshaft. See 2-M-1.

Clubhead Lag Pressure normally remains constant regardless of the Velocity it has produced. And both #1 and #3 Pressure Points are the product of Accumulator #1.

6-C-2-D LAG LOSS The very small degree of Clubhead Lag permitted by Clubshaft Flex, makes this procedure especially susceptible to Clubhead Throwaway. And the stiffer the Clubshaft the less the margin.

Over-Acceleration is the menace that stalks all Lag and Drag. Here it allows the Hands to reach maximum speed before reaching Impact and so dissipates the Lag. So the length of the Stroke and the amount of Thrust should be adjusted and balanced to produce a “High Thrust-Low Speed” Impact – “heavy” rather than “quick.” Daintiness is dangerous.

6-C-2-E GRIPS AND LAG This Clubhead Lag Loading should be the first factor learned in the Zone #2 applications of the Grips. It should be introduced with the simplest Single Barrel Stroke Types, and become habitual before any other specifics are approached, to avoid the miseries of Address Position Impact. Allowing nothing to alter this habit of proper Loading – even momentarily. Nothing else matters much if this is lost. Also adhere rigidly 2-F, 7-23, and 9-2.


6-D-0 GENERAL After the selected Pressure Point pressures have been established, the player’s prime concern is the storage of the accumulated Power. “Power Storage” sustains the Assembly Point (normally Top-of-the-Stroke) alignments, conditions, loading, etc. of the Hands – their Feel per 5-0 – until triggering (7-20). Until mastered – consciously or sub-consciously – Power Golf is impossible. Working on anything else first is wasted time. Hitters and Swingers both have the Power Storage problems listed below but cope with them differently. See 7-19. With “Throwaway” there can be no Rhythm – and vice versa. And an artificial Follow-through. If any.

6-D-1 First, at the Top, the urge to throw the Clubhead from the Wrist, always disregard the Hands. Carefully study 5-0, 7-19, 10-20.

6-D-2 Secondly, surprisingly low, sustained acceleration of the Lever Assemblies produces excessive Hand Speed which irresistibly throws the Clubhead into its Release Orbit prematurely (10-19-C).

6-D-3 Thirdly, the Feel that the Uncocking of the Wrists is to align the Clubface for Impact, forces the Left Wrist to bend backwards and produces “Quitting”. (3-F-7-B) This is “False Feel Wrist Action”. Study 7-8 and 10-5-0.

[EdZ]

Not exactly where I was going with that . . .

Quantitatively, the larger disc has a larger moment of inertia, whereas the smaller disc has a smaller moment of inertia

In this statement consider the different discs as the different Pulley diameters we G.O.L.F.ers have as options. When the straight line motion diverts in to rotational motion of a small pulley the club WHIPS around the pulley because it is easily accelerated due to the mass being closer to the center of rotation. However with a large Pulley more hand speed is required because the mass is by definition farther from the center of rotation. But at the same time this works with you because you have more inertia and thus your Rhythm is easier to maintain with a larger Pulley. So the larger pulley is more about geometry and the small more about physics at the potential destruction of geometry if there is too much load placed on the system.

So it would appear circle delivery path, or rather near to it, if properly understood and utilized, can be very useful for distance control and sustaining the line of compression due to increased mass - less variation in initial ball speed for a given hand speed - vs. a snap release and its stricter Rhythm requirements. All of which assumes of course, that the circle delivery path is still impacting the ball up plane, before low point of the clubhead.