TRICEP AND SHOULDER EXERCISES
 

Since it appears, if I'm reading TGM correctly, that the Triceps and Shoulders are a key in hitting (swinging?), would it not be profitable to do excercies to strengthen these areas?

I'm doing push-ups (well, I had to start with ladies'), push-downs and just started on a machine that strengthens shoulders. I do have the benefit of using a gym and machines on my lunch hour.

Would appreciate any thoughts. I have always considered myself toward the weak side.

Dave

Triceps are important, especially in hitting. Shoulders muscles are important, and according to Homer in the 7th edition, Chest and Lats are also important. Strenghtening these areas along with your abdominals WILL help your game and very likely increase your distances. But, don't fall into the trap that there are specific muscles that you can train and develop to the exclusion of others. The golf swing is a total body motion, from the feet to the head so in order to maximize your physical potential train the whole body.

In addition, strengthening a set of muscles to the exclusion of the supporting muscular structure invites injury due to the potential overload on the supporting muscles. For instance, lets say you focus your training entirely on the upper body to the exlusion of the abdominals, lower back, hips and legs. Over time, your upper body will be able to handle double or triple it's current maximum load. But your supporting muscular structure will break down (muscle, tendon, and ligament damage) due to the increased stress.

Take a Holistic approach to your strength training. You can always give more focus to your golf muscles, but make sure you prepare the body infrastructure with them.

Bagger

Excellent answer, Bagger. As a former competitive bodybuilder I can assure you that it is very important to development the entire body to maintain balance between the various parts. Golfers tend to round their shoulders forward as part of their swing and if they over develop the frontal deltoids (shoulder) and chest at the expense of the rear deltoid and lats they will often wind up with horrible rotator cuff and back problems. A good workout for the entire body is normally about as "golf specific" as anyone needs, unless of course they already have some imbalance that they need to work out of. Basic exercises for medium repetitions will work just fine.

More about Golf Training
 

Well I agree with all of the reply's to your queary Des but . . . I do think if you know you have weak areas then you have to evaluate the reason. It is a typically prevalent occurance in the gym to train incorrectly both in terms of the balance of the body and also in the form attributed to the isolation of your various 'parts'. So I suggest that while you should most definitely be holistic in your training and find a balance in your work you have to recognize and re-educate the relationship of your extremities to the core muscles to execute the very specific application's of TGM.

What you need to know is that you need to create a balanced program and then check your form and insure that you are using the extremities and rotator cuff muscles (the greatest problem in shoulder function, by the way) in difference to the power of the core muscles. Be sure you have appropriate flexibility and strength between the muscles that relate to the shoulder, on of which is the tricep. And finally be sure you start with appropriate posture.

We are working on providing audio and video capability to refine exercise suggestions for you. Hopefully it will come very soon. Before I watch the Falcons move on toward the Super Bowl tomorrow I will post some very chapter specific responses to your questions.

In the mean time, isn't this a great new site. Vickie

Great site it is!

Thanx for replies and I'll be looking forward to the additional comments.

Well I was rooting for Manning and the Colts, even tho I'm in TN . . . so much for this season.

Oh, perhaps I should mention I'm 60, weigh 210 in case that affects the exercise program. And aren't pushups somewhat of an "all-around" exercise? I've been doing 3 sets of 25 of women's. I'm going to switch to men's SOON!

Dave

Oh yea, Women's push-up ( do one arms by the way) are just fine. The secret is always to do thing with great precision since . . . after all . . . we are in love with a precision game. About to sing off for this day but can assure you that this next drive to the super bowl is much desired and I can empathize with your dismay, and for the record I had money on the Colts, is a dollar still considered money?. Well, thanks for the extra infor and til tomorrow. Vik

When my wife was 39 she decided to fulfill a dream. She decided to become a police officer. She is 5-4 and the perfect weight for her height. She entered the Academy without much prior conditioning, and she was never much of a fitness buff. Within 6 months she was doing 100 full push-ups, bench pressing 150% of her body weight, doing 150 sit-ups and running sub-eight minute miles. She was the oldest female to ever graduate from the Academy.
I learned a great deal about her and she about herself. It is interesting what motivation can produce.

Bagger

Team Lance
 

Wow! :shock:

The more I learn about TEAM LANCE, the more impressed I get!

The point I'm trying to make is that you can and should exercise for golf and anybody can make gains in strength and endurance. Triceps and Shoulders are important, and any exercise you do is beneficial. With Vickie's help, we should be able to get some programs posted that will assist you in getting started.

The beauty of golf is even non-athletes can enjoy the game. But physical conditioning makes golf a much more enjoyable sport, and helps keep you out of the Doctors office.

My wife added over 30 yards to her driver by the way, and she never had time for golf when she was in training.

Bagger

Great Information!
 

Thanx again for all the helpful information and I'm looking forward to the forthcoming ideas. I must confess that I'm not real keen on long workouts. I walk into the gym, do the pull downs, the shoulder press machine (3 sets each) - and then it's to the ping-pong table - great for my eye-hand coordination. I mean, I could do a little more, but if it gets too long and involved I tend to give up. I just started the shoulder press machine on Friday. Sometimes I use the medicine ball to do "twists".

Then at home in the evening I do the push-ups and I use a weighted club to do exercises with the wrists, keeping the hand at the waist, I lift the club to horizontal position. This is probably the MOST workout I've done in my 60 years!

Oh, 30 yards sounds GREAT!

Have a great evening and a wonderful tomorrow.

Dave

DES,

Do you have any personal trainers at your facility? Sometimes it's the best way to get a routine going and staying focused. Let's face it, Exercise rooms are BORING. Mine is loaded up with TV's, the stereo is on, and folks are reading, listening to music, etc. while working out.

Going at it solo is very, very hard unless you are committed and disciplined. It's even harder as you get older or you've never had a workout program before. A double wammy!

I'm really impressed that you not only have the motivation to go into the gym, but your are sticking to it, trying new things, and even posting about it. I highly recommend you find a partner or better yet, get a good personal trainer to get you kicked off right.

Have a great weekend as well and keep us posted on your progress!

Bagger

TRAINER
 

While it is a real gym - a country movie was even shot in it years ago - it is actually a rehab workout for our patients. They bought a bunch of new equipment a few years back - I'll give you the name of the equipment later as I can't remember. I work at a VA Medical Center. Employees are permitted to use during lunch and after regular duty hours. But alas, out of our 1500 employees there are usually no more than 10 people in there doing the whole hour using the equipment. Some are shooting basketballs.

But having said that, I am highly motivated to do the workout. But of course I don't want to work against myself or create an injurious situation. I can tell you my triceps were definitely hurting the first few days I did the pulldowns. One employee was a military boxer and I will sometimes ask him questions.

But finding a workout partner there is probably a little remote . . .

Dave

BODYMASTERS
 

The equipment we have here is BODYMASTERS.

They have the following machines:

1. Super Leg Press
2. Shoulder Press *
3. Abductor
4. Arm Curl
5. Adductor
6. Lat Pulldown * (I restrict for Triceps)
7. Abdominal
8. Low Roll
9. Low Back
10. Lateral Raise
11. Leg Curl
12. Seated Pec-Dec Vertical (not sure I scribbled that right)
13. Leg Extension
14. Chest Press
15. Standing Calf

I've never seen some of these machines used.

Dave

short, sweet and specific for success
 

Hi Des, It is the greatest challenge to begin and maintain a workout program. I train people in their homes, most of which have minimal equipment only a couple with real home gyms. Initially the best thing you can do is decide how many days a week you can exercise, how many minutes you can tolerate each day and then be sure you are addressing all of the muscles in your body.

**The main key is to understand that you never want to work the same muscle group two days in a row. **

Even though triceps and shoulders are key, they are considered secondary muscles to the larger, core muscles of the body. So in order to get the maximum performance of these catalysts of great ball distance you must strengthen them with respect to the other, larger, primary muscles.


Your chest is the muscle that pulls your arm across your body and the tricep is it's secondary muscle. The Lat muscle is responsible for controlling the turn of the body and is the primary stabilizer for your hips.

If you want short but effective training, and if you are willing to be in the gym atleast four days I would suggest you create 20-30 minute workouts and split up the muscles you are working.

Example:

Monday and Thursday:
Chest Press withbarbell or dumbbells
Lat Pulldown or Chins
Pec Dec or dumbell butterfly's
Seated/Low Row
Biceps
Abdominals

Tuesday and Friday
Leg Extension
Leg Curl
Shoulder Press
Super Leg Press
Lateral Raises
Forward Raises
Rear Deltoid
Abductor
Triceps
10 minutes of stretching

I know this sounds like a lot but once you get your flow you can move through it very efficiently. Notice we are splitting the muscles up so that one group is resting while the other is working. This way you never have to stop between exercises and it makes your time very efficient.

As long as you alternate you can put the four days together Mon - Thurs and then take three days off of strength and focus on you other needs; cardio and flexibility

If you are unsure about the form hire a trainer for just a couple of sessions to get started confidently and then just show up for yourself.

Also, every now and then, when you just don't want to be in the gym or just to mix it up, do your workout at home with some light dumbbels that you can sit in your closet and do your pushups and your shoulder work at home

Also go to the library and look at some of the training books both general and golf specific. Arnold, the Gov, has a book that explains almost every exercise known to mankind both on machines and with dumbbells complete with some very intimidating pictures. It can be a great resource even if you don't need it in your personal library.

Love to know how you progress. Vickie

WORKOUT
 

Thanx, Vickie -

You've given quite a workout. I had already done exercises today at noon so I'll get started on the others tomorrow.

My only question on these - do I do 1 set or 3 sets or does it matter?

I appreciate your taking the time to share the valuable information.

Dave

Great Question Des. I would start with one full set of each exercise listed, moving more slowly and deliberately through each exercise repetition, adding a second set of each exercise until your 30 minute time span is over. (The third set may or may not be necessary for all body parts, depending on your ultimate and changing goals. Right now balance in your body parts is more important.) Initially your goal is to raise your workload (4 days a week is very significant and will yield results quickly) without using up every spare moment you have. As you become more familiar with the schedule and each exercise you will become more efficient and move through it all in less time. You will be decidedly pleased with your progress and can make adjustments, going to less days for maintainance or splitting the body parts more and having even greater variability in your schedule. Begin with low to moderate weight, increasing resistence appropriately as your strength and schedule will allow.

I do all of my flexibility work at home as well as my abdominals. Atlease once every three or four workouts has to be rescheduled or modified to do at home. If you are consistent it will be easier to keep in a flow but don't get married to your schedule. Allow you family and work life to be an necessary interruption on occassion and just resume your regular schedule a.s.a.p. Remember: Your workout should serve your life not the other way around.

Keep me posted. Vickie

1 DAY
 

Well, I got thru the first day and followed your program. It went well. Took a little longer figuring how much weight to use.

I'll let you know in a about a month how it's going.

Again, Thanx SO MUCH for your help.

Dave

UPDATED PROGRESS - VICKIE
 

Hi, Vickie -

I just wanted to give you an update on my progress - as promised - to at least let you know I haven't fallen by the wayside!

I continue the program you established with the machines from work - there are a couple I have chosen not to do just because of time.

Yesterday I did the Triceps, Abductor, Shoulder Press, Leg Press and Lateral Raises. (There are a few there I've omitted - Leg Curl, Leg Extension, Forward Raises and Real Deltoid - not sure if we have a machine for those last 2).

Today I did the Chest Press, Pec Dec, Biceps, Lat Pull - I usually do the Seated Row and omit the Abs - again is this the Abductor?

So I do these 5 days a week, usually starting with the Triceps, etc on Sunday and then alternating.

The other thing I do and I don't know if this is good or not, but I believe I mentioned push-ups. I had started with ladies' - because I couldn't do mens' - but have moved up to 35 mens' push-ups, which to me is quite an accomplishment. I also do the weighted club execise (with weight added) - arms at side and just raising the club with the wrists.

I do these 2 exercises 7 days a week. A co-worker and friend, former Air Force guy, says I need to have some rest. My shoulders are a bit sore and he says they will continue so if I don't give them rest.

Your thots on rest, etc are appreciated.

And lets hope this translates into a few more yards with the clubs!!!

Thanx again for your help.

Dave

At least with my routine, I try to split things up so I work everything hard once a week. That means chest/tris, back/bis, and shoulders/legs. I do cardio on other days. This amounts to Mon/Wed/Fri lifting, and at least Tues/Thurs running.

I have found in my experience that sometimes it's even hard to train the same muscle group every few days depending on your routine. Mine is centered around the major compound lifts with only a little isolation thrown in. You will get the delayed onset soreness with something like squats, where your quads feel fine the next morning but are sore as can be two days later. That's why I try to do the 3-day split and only work everything once a week. Plus I just don't have that many blocks of free time where I can lift (at least during the hours where the gym isn't going to be a zoo) with the way my schedule is this spring.

As for those push-ups, they really aren't going to build muscle the same way weight training will. They are almost the equivalent of high reps/low weight workouts - good for muscle endurance but not really for strength.

You should at least be taking a day off every couple workout days. Seven days in a row is just going to take an unnecessary toll on your body. It will be mentally draining as well and not conducive to keeping yourself motivated in the long-term. Plus, it will lead to overtraining and diminished results.

Above all else, I have to stress the importance of nutrition in all of this. You can lift and lift and lift...and if you aren't getting the right nutrients and macros you're going to make some very slow progress. Your muscles need the right things to grow, and they grow outside the gym. Really watch your diet and make sure you are eating lean protein sources and don't cut out good carbs.

Hear Hear
 

Matt,

Nice post and good advice.

The only thing I can add is as you get older, the longer the recovery time for the same routine as someone younger. In addition, the gains are slower. So as we age, patience and discipline are the keys and the rewards are great!

Bagger

Well Des, you have recieved excellent feedback. Matt is right on . . . split things up to give the muscles plenty of time to rest and seven days a week is a recipe for disaster, let's give your military advisor credit also. Remember that I suggested that you should never work the same muscles two days in a row. While I really think push ups are a great routine blaster, adding endurance and iso-genetic training within your isotonic (weight resistence) training, every day is just too much. Also your body just needs days to rest and recover on and off the golf course. Bagger is right also, even though I don't put as much credence to aging as most people rest is critical to your success both in terms of increased strength and physical endurance.

I must have missed a previous reference to an 'abductor'. Typically, in the gym, this is a machine that you sit in and open your legs to work the outer (lateral) aspects of your legs. Typically there are two machines side by side and one you squeeze your legs in (adductor) and the other you open your legs against the resistence(abductor). I personally would suggest you do compound leg exercises and leave these to, well the girls. Unless you are recovering from a very specific injury or you have all the time in the world, these muscles are incorporated in compound use of the hips and legs and only use up your time. I have other opinions about these machines but will save them for a more casual conversation. Your Abs can be worked with machines in the gym or just effectively at home with traditional exercises and with medicine balls that have been mentioned on other threads.

I absolutely do believe you need to find time for two isolation leg exercises primarily because they are so important to the knee joint, leg extension and leg curl. You should just jump from one to another, three sets each, without rest keeping the weight light enough to get 15 repetitions but with perfect form and with a challenge. I also notice that you are missing bicep work, critical to the function of the lats and ability to move your arms through the full range of motion with healthy elbows.
Forward raises and rear deltoids are more of the shoulder joint muscles and are necessary to keep the rotator cuff muscles from over working to stabilize the funtions of your swing. These could and maybe should be performed with dumbgbells. There is a rear deltoid exercise that can best be accomplished on a pec dec if the machine is set up to allow it.

Again, if you have a trainer that could just walk thru some of these suggestions it will help you immensely. Sounds like you are doing very well on your own but as you might have seen in Matts response, balance is everything. If you work the muscles of the front of your joint, you want to work the muscles on the other side (an over simplification to the extreme) equally.

I am so glad you have found a rythm in your training. We are all (after 25 years, by the way) always looking to create the balance. Congrats for staying in the challenge. I am so glad you posted your progress. Let's keep it going.

Viokie

THANX FOR ALL THE FEEDBACK
 

Vickie -

Perhaps I have the wrong name on the machine, but I thought it was the Abductor. You sit on a seat with your chest agaist the padded surface - it has 2 hand grips behind and you simply bend forward from the waist. I'll check on the name tomorrow.

I'm not sure what you mean by "compound leg exercieses." Concering the other exercises, we have the machine you are describing, I believe, but usually avoid - opening and closing legs.

RE: Leg Extension and Leg Curl. I was avoiding them because I was concerned they might aggravate the arthritis in my knees. Right now knees are doing well, minimum pain, walking is OK. Are these approriate with arthritis?

Thanx again.

Dave

I know the machine you are talking about and there's no telling what they call it. This is an abdominal crunch apparatus. When you are bending forward from the waist make sure you are engaging your abdominal muscles and letting them lead the motion. Don't get into the habit of pulling the handles or you will create some pain at the top of your shoulder blades.

Compound leg exercises are simply movements that use all of the muscles instead of seperating out their functions. Squats (all of the many kinds) leg presses hack squats, hamstring deadlifts, lunges (my personal favorite for my people) are all compound motions.

Leg extensions and curls are critical to the function of the knee joint relative to the hip action. You are right that arthritis requires that you manage a level of resistence that doesn't over tax the cartlidge. So keep the movements slow and the weight light. By moving slowly you stay in the muscle for a longer period of time which increases the overload. Extend your for a cound of four and lower for a cound of six. Reverse the order on the leg curl, lifting for a coundt of four and lower for a cound of six. Make sure your movements are complete, fully extend your knee but no slamming or bouncing into the top and control your stop at the bottom before you resume. Also make sure you are not over flexing your ankle. It should be comfortably flexed only. ( To save time it's ok to do your legs together but expecially on leg extensions I like to do each leg individually atleast every other workout just to make sure they are progressing equally and not being led by a dominant, right, leg)

There are many theories for arthritis and many causes for every individual. Make sure you are supporting your immune system, and get ting plenty of fish oil (omega 3) in your diet. You could consider some supplements for arthritis to reduce your symptom and slow down the progress of the condition. You should talk to a qualified person at a real health food store, avoid chains and department or drug store products.


Let's see where this takes us. Keep asking questions! Vik

SUPPLEMENTS
 

Thanx, Vickie -

Yes, it's the ABDOMINALS!

I take a pretty heavy dose of vitamins, minerals, herbs every morning! Somewhere around 50, plus or minus. Some of these are for hypertension. It includes 3000 omega-3. I'm also taking a liquid formula designed by a chiropractor in Iowa. It includes MSM, Chondroitan, etc as well as some herbs for pain. It's called FLEX-EASY. It would appear that it seems to be helping. A year or so ago I was visibily limping and knees were "popping" constantly. On the negative side I do take 3 Motrin every morning as well.

At bedtime I do an oral chelation with EDTA (3000mg), L-Cystine and NAC (I think about 500mg each). I strongly disagree with the medical profession that heart disease is from cholestrol - hence the oral chelation).

Again, thanx for the help and input.

Dave

Des, Fabulous supplement orchestration. I'm running out for a couple of days with my son but would love to banter about you brilliant conclusion that heart disease is about so much more than cholesterol. In fact the medical research industry has proven it conclusively. I'll post Sunday. Thanks for the great feedback! Vik

PS I'd love to know more about the Flex-Easy product also. Always looking for good products and certainly a chance to take one less pill.

HEART DISEASE
 

I'll look forward to your post on Sunday!

In the meantime, here's the website for the oral formula I take. And I understand there is always some sujectivity to these things. But I do know I was limping, walking with pain, and knees sounded like shotguns! Whether it's the FlexEasy or some of the other ingredient I'm taking, I can't conclusively say. My only complaint to him was the carbs - about 9 per dosage. You can check the ingredients on the website as obviously I didn't remember them all.

I'm on the auto plan which runs about $26 per month which includes Prioity Mail shipping.

www.flexeasy.com

Dave