Question#1
 

#1

Should a divot "exit" angle be shallower than its "entrance" ?

HB

I guess that depends more on the turf than the stroke.

But if your divot is short and deep you are quitting one way or another.

I like long & shallow bacon strips. And I like 'em a lot longer than I can make'em:laughing9

Would it be wrong ...?
 

If I visualize a shallower exit to a divot because the swing radius increases as #2 continues to extend all the way to both arms straight??

HB

If Low-Point is the Lowest Reached Point of Clubhead Travel (relative to the ground) before the Clubhead travels Up and Back, then Divot Length and Depth would relate to Ball Location for the pre-Low-Point Divot. Hand Location will be a determining factor in Divot Depth and Length as well as the Clubhead Travel from Level to Uncocked Left Wrist.

Question #2
 

question #2;
What is the "shape" of the divot, on the ground, relative to the plane line?

HB

Hitters would have a Straight Divot down the Angle of Approach. Swingers would have a curved Divot down the Arc of Approach.

They may both look straight but much depends on the degree of Angle of Approach. In all cases the Divot should be relatively Flat and Wide. Depth is mostly determined at Set-up. Which Groove do you want to strike the Ball with?

Whatever makes you tick, HB

When I hit a low wedge I visualise a shallow divot. That helps me prevent a glancing blow - a slice underneath the ball - where the ball balloons up and the leading edge digs deep into the ground.

Thanks gentlemen for helping with the answers. I must abandon my "divot" thinking. I was trying to stay simple and within TGM structure to get to a much broader alignment that I dont find in TGM, although it is likely there. HAND PATH POST IMPACT which effects "Exit Plane" . and to my thinking may be as important as finish swivel. Now without calling it that, Because its NOT TGM, I don't think, one might list "IT" under CF and CP "procedures". I would appreciate reading about "IT" if "IT" is permissible to ask here?

HB

What do you mean that it's not TGM? Exit Path? If your Angle of Approach moves the Primary Lever past the Hinge for Impact, then you'll exit above the Impact Plane Angle as you Finish Swivel.

If you want to "Exit" On-Plane, then simply keep the Primary Lever In-Line with the Hinge at Impact.

I have no idea what "Angle of Approach moves the Primary Lever past the Hinge for Impact means???

Where did HK write about this? He recognized plane shifts but not tied to exit path I think??? Then I need to tie it to hitting vs. swinging or maybe release type/hinge type and right arm pitch vs. punch. Very complex set of options. Arn't there?

HB

It's easier than that. But it doesn't bother me in the least if my hands are ahead at Impact and if my Finish Swivel is a little Above Plane. In fact, I think that it's good form.

If your hands get out beyond the Hinge before Impact, than the ONLY path the Hands can travel is UP, above Plane and along the Line of the Angle of Approach of your Right Forearm. Keep the Hands under (In-Line) with the Hinge for Impact Which will allow the Hands and Right Forearm to remain On-Plane until the Finish Swivel.

Example:

If your Stance is too narrow, you hands will pass the Hinge before the Right Forearm reaches the On-Plane Angle of Approach.

In the Pic below, his Hands are directly Under the Hinge when his Right Forearm reached the Angle of Approach.

I truly do not know what "pass the hinge" means . Your Hogan pix passed this question.
I SEE what you are saying

HB

The Hinge is Located at the Shoulder. His Hands did not pass his Left Shoulder Hinge Location until after Impact. If his Hands passed his Left Shoulder before Impact then he would have swung "out to the Right" (down the Angle of Approach) farther than you think is correct, after Impact.

As an aside I dont think the Hinge is necessarily in the Left Shoulder for all shots or for that matter at all times during one stroke.

Take Arnies Hands only putting style , The Peck Basic Stroke the Hinge is the Hands. Or take a Pivot only putting stroke (Putt Basic) .....the Hinge would be in the Pivot Center wouldnt it? For an Arms only (Zone 2 only) stroke the Hinge would be at the Left Shoulder .........How 'bout the Right Elbow for Right Arm swinging? All of this may have implications to ball placement when putting, chipping assuming you want to hit the ball at or fore of low point...low point being underneath the center of the circle.

The Machine of 1-L zeroes the Pivot and the Hands, no? It does its job revealing the underlying geometry of golf , really, really nicely but its a model only with some assumptions inherent, Im thinking. Somewhere in the book Homer talks about the Three Zones and how anyone of them can manipulate the clubface in a manner consistent with the three Hinge Actions....cant find it right now.

Was Hogans Hinge at his Left Shoulder .....yes as the center of his Arm Swing had become the center of his motion by that point in his swing. Let me explain, in Startdown where his Left ARm is pinned to his chest , where his Pivot is Delivering his fully loaded and in tact Power Package Down Plane........the Pivot Center was assuming command and was the center of his motion at that time. The pivot center , a place located somewhere between the shoulders.... Of note is that the Radius , the length of the lever is shorter from Pivot Center to Clubhead, by about half of the left arm actually. When the Left Arm blasts off , accelerates away from the chest (Pivot) the center of the motion jumps to the Left Shoulder and in so doing establishes a longer Radius from shoulder to clubhead...... exactly like a bicycle chain moving to a bigger sprocket wheel. With similar results too..... bigger circle , longer radius, increased clubhead speed at the other end of the radius , lever.

Radius , lever length, another good reason to not put a hanky under your left arm pit.


Uh I hope we're in the Lab here.......... cause who are these dudes in the white coats? Daryl, Mike is that you? Is that jacket for me? Hope its 44 tall........

Straight plane line and square clubace are required for both hitter and swinger the divots would have to be the same no?

I think D is talking about the Angle of Approach, an inside out, cross line procedure employed almost exclusively by Hitters vs the ARc of Approach Procedure employed by both Hitters and Swingers.

So to answer your question precisely.......Hitters are not "required" to use the Square Plane LIne, they do have the option of the cross line Angle of Approach Procedure (for balls played back of low point). They use the Square Plane Line to establish the Angle of Approach and then let the original plane line "vanish". We need drawings again.

If you're a Hitter dont worry about things ........the ARc if fine. Square Plane line Down and Out to Low Point then Up and In. Situation normal. Divots too Id imagine.....not 100% sure.

Speaking of divots .........how about Aiming Point vs Tracing, divot wise? Mine might be fractionally deeper with Aiming Point. Is that normal?

Great thinking O.B. "Where's the Hinge?"

When we look at the Inclined Plane and inscribe the Angle and Arc of Approach, they're both going inside-out.

Thanks D. Ill show my doodle for that one sometime .....still in its infancy at the moment. Maybe in a different thread.

Yeah the curved Arc is inside out till low point whereas the Angle of Approach just keeps on going straight line , wheel track ..... Homer tried to make it easier to understand with the wheel rim, wheel track thing but I believe he really needed diagrams to explain the Visual Equivalents. The Angle isnt all that helpful, handy if you cant understand it. But that said its still a little bit of Homers genius ....... amazing stuff, really. The guys geometry was so impressive and geometry is best explained in drawings not words. Perhaps the reason the book is such a hard read.

Somebody's gonna shock the golfing world when they draw it all out.