Aiming Point / Impact Fix Hand Location Procedure
 

Per 6-E-1, the Player can use either the Aiming Point Procedure, 6-E-2, or the Impact Hand Location Procedure, 7-8, for Power Package Delivery. The Aiming Point Procedure is an automatic and indirect equivalent of the Impact Hand Location Procedure. As Yoda has stated in an older thread:

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...d.php?t=3000#3

Then, why is the Aiming Point Concept "mandatory for Control of any Snap Release" (6-E-1)?

By the way: In that other thread Yoda explained that the "Aiming Point of the Hands" that Ben Doyle teaches was not the Aiming Point procedure from 6-E-2, but rather the Impact Hand Location procedure of 7-8. Does anybody know why Ben uses the term Aiming Point for his procedure if it is not the Aiming Point from the book? I find that a little surprising - considering Mr Kelley's concern for terminology (1-H):

I do not mean to offend or criticize anybody by asking this, I am just curious.

Could it be that Ben's procedure together with the setup he teaches (ball always placed at the same distance from the left heel, so that a wider or narrower stance will change the distance between the ball and the left shoulder) makes for an indirect application of the Aiming Point concept from the book (in particular, the procedure presented as #2 at the end of 6-E-2, p. 86 of the 7th edition) even with an Impact Hand Location procedure?

Does that make any sense to you? I am struggling a bit to explain myself here.

Ok, So....., you're tracing the Plane Line with your #3 Pressure Point. Where along that Line is the #3 PP aimed during Release?

Here's more info: Wherever the location on the Plane Line, that the Right Forearm is pointing, is where the #3 PP is aimed (Flashlight lashed to the Right Forearm with the Lens at the #3 PP). So, with a Snap Release, the Right Forearm is pointing (Angle of Approach) way ahead of the Ball Location at Release.

The Picture Below illustrates a "Random Sweep Release". The dashed white line represents the Angle of Approach approximately at Impact. If you were to use a Snap Release, that dashed white Line would be your Right Forearm Angle of Approach at Release.

Par71,

I think you are asking some great questions and I feel I will learn a lot from answers to them as Daryl just did. This one in particular is an area I struggle with. YODA has said Bobby Clampett's version of Aiming Point differs from Homer Kelley's. I wonder if Bobby's is similar to Ben Doyle's version you mentioned? I am a HUGE fan of The Impact Zone, but would love to be able to translate the specifics of Aiming Point back to the Machine the way YODA prefers...

Tough stuff, threads like this remind me how far I have to go in my journey.

Kevin

Can aiming point be used like this?

This is going to be hard to describe but I always thought of aiming point as a procedure to locate the hands location at impact in relation to the ball, meaning if they are farther forward or back or whatever, but there relation was parallel to the ball target baseline.......what I did not realize till yesterday was that this concept also can play a part in the hands location in relation to the body, measuring closer or further away from it........now I drive my hands not only forward but down and inward (I am shift the baseline left in my pattern, for a fade). I have no clue if this makes sense. This is a pretty easy way to move the baselines around. For a hang back head and shoulder drop slider all this did was stop the slide and move the right shoulder more around and down plane. Its almost impossible not to have a flat left wrist. Drive #1 low and left, blast off #4 right before impact. Definitely a hitting procedure but I still have plenty of pivot.

Very interesting, I would love to hear more discussion on this. My thought is that it may not be part of Aiming Point as Homer Kelley teaches, but could be a great addition. Perhaps even tied to 2-J-3, another area I need to get a better grasp of...

Kevin

KEV, Daryl, GMB....
 

I think I believed as you did GMB. If I did Impact Fix, I was rehearsing my Aim Point or target to use in Thrusting while Hitting with the club or Angle of Approach while Swinging with the club. Very interesting. I'm still trying to learn from Daryl's post here, too.

http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/thread7215-41.html # 405


Thanks!

ICT

This is an interesting pic.....people use Hogan as the poster boy for accumulator lag.....this pic certainly doesn't support that ..... Also where is the shaft lean??? I know this wasn't hit off turf but you can find other pics like this. Also look at the layback off the face as supported by the location of the handle. Also with the amount of angle that hogan loads and the lack of lean delivered to the ball.....hogan may have had an aiming point AFT of the ballot achieve this pic

Daryl,
Where your "aiming" your hands and where they actually end up are to different things correct? If im aiming my #3pp at the ball tracing the plane line, my hands will end up over my left toe at impact. correct ?

Thanks
Mac.

Yes, over your Left toe, or Approx, for every club in the bag. The Right Forearm Angle of Approach.

Wow, Mac....very Important thing to understand, and you've got it or you're getting it.

It's true that if you direct the #3 PP directly at the Ball, the Clubshaft will trace the Plane Line. Hmm? However, We should be Tracing the Plane line with a Light emitting from the #3 PP with a Bent and Level Right Wrist along the Length of the Right Forearm. (The Bent wrist allows the Light to trace the Plane Line although the Forearm is pointing above, or outside the Line).

So, one Alignment, the one that you're talking about (Clubshaft Tracing), can be aimed directly at the ball during the down-stroke, as long as the other (Forearm Tracing) is tracing the Plane Line through the Release and Impact Interval. These are both necessary, in the geometrically Aligned sense.

So, for you...and me...Tracing begins at the Ball and travels the Plane Line at Release to Both Arms Straight. Snap Release Procedure.

I happen to have had a lesson today with Mr. Doyle at the Quail Lodge. He is doing quite well and worked with me a couple of hours.

During the leson I asked him about the aiming point. He took out a small chunk of turf near my left foot and said that was the aiming point. I asked about #3 pp, and he stated that was to monitor lag and direct the club head to the inside aft of the ball.

I am having a playing lesson with him tomorrow and will be happy to follow up if anyone has any questions arising out of what he said.

Naturally, working wth Ben is a great joy. Signed my Golf Machine Book. Going to his house tomorrow and play his par three course and meet his wife.

that's a cool think to be doing, i'd certainly be interested in hearing how it went & what you picked up from it

Very cool. Have a great day today!

Kevin

Would love to see some pictures of Ben. Now where was aiming point? On the plane line off off the left foot ahead of the ball

Great day with Ben, marred only by skulling one into his neighbors house out of the sand trap in his backyard.

Otherwise, working on walloping it with the pivot.

I hope to accomplish same tomorrow in the final range lesson before back to reality.

He strongly reiterated aiming point is near the left foot.

Chipingguru, if you get a chance to ask Ben: Does he feel that his definition of aiming point is any different from the definition Homer used in the book (aiming point near the foot as opposed to aiming point on the plane line)?

Welcome back Bucket.

I've been looking at the photo for a while , wondering about that look. I work in film and have a kinda weird theory on why it looks funny. Here goes:

-its shot in a studio , super high speed with strobe lights, etc .

-they had him set up on a tall riser so they could take some low angle shots but put him on sand instead of artificial turf.

-his first few shots saw a tremendous plume of sand following the ball and obscuring the view of the face and ball.

- To remedy this the props man created a super high tee out of sand , old school .....it can be seen in some other shots from this session. Mr Hogan did his part by taking out all of the Down he could by playing the ball forward and then
swung the clubhead as opposed to swinging the hands.

-this is a "clean pick off" and maybe the only time Hogan would have hit a long iron tee'd an inch or more high.

I dunno.........just a theory. Sure doesnt look like his normal procedure, Release. D, said it was Random Sweep Release too so that'd be consistent with Swinging the Clubhead on the way down.


http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=129493064 9

Great story , thanks for sharing Chipingguru.

I do think there's a different take on terminology happening here. Being the first A.I. wouldnt have been very easy.......heck the last A.I. probably had a horrible time with it all too. Lets give Mr Doyle his due , he has contributed so much in his life time.

Mr Doyles version of it wont hurt you in the least but perhaps it suggests he is missing out on Homer's Aiming Point which would be a shame. He could always Trace I suppose, Tracing and the Aiming Point Procedure being interchangeable. But different.

Please send along some photos if you have them.

Terminiology? Philosophy? Differences?
 

Hi everyone. I have been spending time with Mr. McHatton via video who quotes Mr. Doyle and looks more like him in his strokes than Yoda. No biggie. Am I correct though in that observation? Are they less RFT and more Pivot? Wouldn't they find the Aiming point more easily using RFT? Did I just lapse into threadjacking?
:crybaby:

I have been trying so hard to stay on task!:) I am becoming my kindergarteners!!!!

Shalom!

ICT

Confessions of a "Book Literalist"
 

My teacher was Homer Kelley. He taught me the principles of his great work, The Golfing Machine, and established the foundation for my 30-year study. For me, everything since has had to square with that standard.

Including Ben.

And, among a host of other teachers, commentators, magazine articles, and books . . .

Five Lessons / Hogan

Square-To-Square / Flick

The Golf Swing / Leadbetter

The X-Factor Swing / McLean

Stack and Tilt / Bennett/Plummer

One Plane-Two Plane / Hardy

Essentials of the Swing / Haney

And coming soon to a bookstore near you . . .

The Foley Fundamentals / Foley (my entry to the Golf Digest "Title it!" contest :mrgreen:).

The various methods -- in books or otherwise -- are usually straightforward and can be readily examined (and compared) using the concepts of The Golfing Machine -- as described in its text and illustrated in its sketches and photos. In that light, the strengths and weaknesses of each methodology is soon apparent.

Whatever 'method' you choose, its resultant Ball Flight can now be visualized using D-Plane (The Physics of Golf, Jorgensen, 1994) and quantified using TrackMan (www.trackman.com) or the launch monitor of your choice.

The essence of D-Plane and TrackMan, et al. are explained in Sketch 2-C-1 #3 and paragraph 7-2. For ancillary information, see also 2-F, 2-G, 2-J-1, 2-J-2, 2-N-0, 7-10, 7-11, and more than a few other places when pressed with questions.

:salut:

WOW, what a post YODA!

As long as we are entering a Golf Digest contest, you forgot:

Applying The Golfing Machine In The 21st Century
A Passion For Life
by LYNN BLAKE

Sure to be a BEST SELLER!

Kevin

Trying to get the discussion back to my initial question:eyes: :

Aiming To Please
 

An Automatic Snap Release happens too fast to be consciously controlled. Since it is impossible to consciously deliver the Hands and Club to their Impact Hand Location alignments (Fix / 7-8 ), you need an alternative procedure. The Aiming Point concept produces the desired alignments automatically, but indirectly, i.e., without thought of Impact Hands Location.

:golfcart2:

Thats two "Hall of Fame" posts in a row Lynn. Thanks for this......and that.

So much for manipulating a Snap Release via an Impact Hands Location.....and I hadnt even started yet. Phew! Back to my sorry Random Sweep Release. I just wanna have a snap release like everyone else though! Its not fair.