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-   -   Hands Controlled Pivot (http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7802)

Daryl 12-01-2010 10:12 AM

Hands Controlled Pivot
 
Maybe this will help someone clear the fog. I think it may be the last Bulletin written by Homer Kelley.

It seems that "Hands Controlled Pivot" states that the relationships of the components and their interaction is more important than their position. This gives "Alignments" the focus of our attention but does not sacrifice Pivot Power.

Then, there are thousands of possible ways to swing a club. So, when you develop your stroke pattern, do so by educating your Pivot to not interfere with the Hands and their control of the Clubshaft, Clubhead and Clubface. The relationships within and among the three Zones is very important. Don't let the Pivot control these alignments.


Quote:

December 1982
G.O.L.F. Bulletin
Page 6

EDITOR’S TIP



The subject for this outing is - the difference between “Alignment Golf" (Hand Controlled Pivot) and “Position Golf" (Pivot Controlled Hands). Position Golf advocates teaching the Pivot Components (especially) to move from an Address Location to a “Top Location” to an Impact Location to a Finish Location in such a manner as to cause the Arms to whip the Clubhead along a path that passes through the Ball Location. Then to practice adjusting these various locations to vary and control Ball Behavior. I know, because I spent fifteen years trying to reduce that shift to some sort of a pattern. All the time, with the cry “Golf is an art, not a science.” ringing far and wide. And to this day. “Einstein was a great engineer but a lousy golfer.” Ipso facto - all engineers are doomed to lousy golfing - unless they ignore engineering, which they apparently do.

"Alignment Golf” holds that the relationships of those “Component Locations,“ “Positions” AND Movements, with each other and with the target line, are the Golfing Imperatives.

Here is the point of apparent confusion for some seekers. The Hands and Arms do not substitute for the Pivot. The Pivot is the entire substance of Zone #1 of the G.O.L.F. techniques and advocates precision relationships and movements of the Pivot. Which must be educated to make any adjustment of these relationships and movements the Hands declare necessary for avoiding interference with its complete freedom in executing the Three Functions of the Club - those of the Clubshaft, the Clubhead and the Clubface. All three of which must be kept completely coordinated but completely independent - the only procedure available for consistently precise Impact.

The advantages of this is obvious in the Golfing Machine. All of these factors can be identified, catalogued and assembled into completely compatible and repeatable - as well as infinitely and voluntarily adjustable - individual Patterns.

So Hand Controlled Pivots are Pivots at their best. Now - what is recommended, is educating the Pivot Components - per Zone #1 OUT OF THEIR DICTATORIAL FIXED POSITION SYNDROME forthwith!! Third with, if possible. At least, get started!!

KevCarter 12-01-2010 10:40 AM

Great find Daryl. Thanks very much for sharing it. AWESOME!!!

Kevin

innercityteacher 12-01-2010 01:09 PM

Yeppers, that insight took me about 4 months!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by KevCarter (Post 79209)
Great find Daryl. Thanks very much for sharing it. AWESOME!!!

Kevin

Ok, I can be a little dense. :crybaby:


ICT

KevCarter 12-01-2010 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 79211)
Ok, I can be a little dense. :crybaby:


ICT

You're not being dense my friend. We're all here to learn from the guys who have been studying the Yellow Book for years!

Kevin

Daryl 12-01-2010 02:35 PM

I said earlier: "The relationships within and among the three Zones is very important. Don't let the Pivot control these alignments."


I should have added the relationship of the components and procedures to the Plane and/or Target Line are vital as well.

O.B.Left 02-06-2011 05:55 PM

Hands to Pivot is a great study, eh Daryl. Thanks for that bulletin.

Have you guys seen this video? Nice pivots on these guys.......with no thought to it after its trained I bet. Hands to Pivot.

Lots of LBG concepts on display here actually.... 6-M-1, ah dare I say thats an Aiming Point Procedure? And of course the right , left , right , left from the MacDonald drills, ......what else?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL0F3...eature=related


He reminds me of Ted Fort hitting a casual bucket of balls on a Saturday afternoon.

O.B.Left 02-06-2011 06:23 PM

I just did some research on line into Hands To Pivot..........its largely misunderstood.

I know, Homer misunderstood? Shall I alert the media, Sir?

Here's a really great post on the subject....

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/s...ad.php?p=26157

innercityteacher 02-06-2011 07:57 PM

Ohhhhhh!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 82159)
Hands to Pivot is a great study, eh Daryl. Thanks for that bulletin.

Have you guys seen this video? Nice pivots on these guys.......with no thought to it after its trained I bet. Hands to Pivot.

Lots of LBG concepts on display here actually.... 6-M-1, ah dare I say thats an Aiming Point Procedure? And of course the right , left , right , left from the MacDonald drills, ......what else?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL0F3...eature=related


He reminds me of Ted Fort hitting a casual bucket of balls on a Saturday afternoon.


TSP and Elbow Plane attacks? :)


ICT

O.B.Left 02-06-2011 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by innercityteacher (Post 82162)
TSP and Elbow Plane attacks? :)


ICT

Hah, he can adjust his Angle of Attack to vary his impact dynamics it would seem.

tim chapman 02-10-2011 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 82159)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL0F3...eature=related


He reminds me of Ted Fort hitting a casual bucket of balls on a Saturday afternoon.

that's pretty cool OB,

you can imagine this guy having some golf stroke

O.B.Left 02-10-2011 06:54 PM

Stack and chop
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tim chapman (Post 82266)
that's pretty cool OB,

you can imagine this guy having some golf stroke


Hey Tim

Thing is all those pro axemen guys have great pivots , motions........ figuring out why or how is interesting from a golf perspective. I have a feeling he isnt thinking about his weight shift or his sequence for instance... So what is he thinking about in our terms? What automates that pivot ....what are his intentions?

Check these guys out.......they all have a similar motion and great pivots to my golfers eye.

Would the equivalent for us be to just smash the clubhead into and right on through the aiming point ....... as if the shaft would snap in the process? I dunno but I bet it has something to do with the brain and the hands. Mike O. probably has some good stuff on this sort of thing....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KaouIsXaFY

O.B.Left 02-10-2011 07:19 PM

4 Attachment(s)
Upon further review......is there a Hands To Pivot or an "Intentions" aspect to any of the following? The LBG logo in particular.... is that about intentions? An intention that automates the pivot (after some training) ?

drewitgolf 02-10-2011 07:37 PM

The road to help is paved with good intentions
 
Keep going O.B. You are getting warmer.

airair 02-10-2011 07:58 PM

__________________
Drew

Let Your Motion Make the Shot. Use Your Educated Hands to Hinge the Face of Your Lagging Clubhead and On Plane Clubshaft.

-------------------

Is this TGM in a nutshell?

drewitgolf 02-10-2011 09:51 PM

We have made an Impact
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by airair (Post 82286)
__________________
Drew

Let Your Motion Make the Shot. Use Your Educated Hands to Hinge the Face of Your Lagging Clubhead and On Plane Clubshaft.

-------------------

Is this TGM in a nutshell?

It is the three all-encompassing Primary Concepts of TGM on which all details can be easily attached as they surface.

My favorite video...

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...oel-Class.html

airair 02-10-2011 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewitgolf (Post 82287)
It is the three all-encompassing Primary Concepts of TGM on which all details can be easily attached as they surface.

My favorite video...

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...oel-Class.html

Did you say easily?
Even Yoda said something about the curse of TGM: being so complete. :eh:

O.B.Left 02-10-2011 11:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drewitgolf (Post 82285)
Keep going O.B. You are getting warmer.



Ah thats all i got Drew. Damn Hands to Pivot ......wat the....?

tim chapman 02-11-2011 05:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 82282)
Hey Tim

Thing is all those pro axemen guys have great pivots , motions........ figuring out why or how is interesting from a golf perspective. I have a feeling he isnt thinking about his weight shift or his sequence for instance... So what is he thinking about in our terms? What automates that pivot ....what are his intentions?

Check these guys out.......they all have a similar motion and great pivots to my golfers eye.

Would the equivalent for us be to just smash the clubhead into and right on through the aiming point ....... as if the shaft would snap in the process? I dunno but I bet it has something to do with the brain and the hands. Mike O. probably has some good stuff on this sort of thing....

it is interesting for sure, it says a couple of things to me

1) they are feeling the weight of the axehead & responding to that with the intention of applying maximum force to impact
2) as you say they are into aiming point but imo aren't likely to be consciously considering plane lines, shaft alignments etc they are just doing - there could be something for a lot of us in that thought 'more doing less thinking'

that said, no doubt they train for this stuff & there might well be coaches who have analysed their stroke & identified optimum arm/wrist/shaft angles etc

Daryl 02-11-2011 09:06 AM

That's a lot of "white" pants and a lot of "Right Arm" Swinging. :)

I had to look it up: http://www.usaxemen.com/usaa/rules.shtml

Quote:

DRESS CODE:
To increase the professional appearance of lumberjack contests in the United States the following dress code is recommended. Contestants should wear long pants, not shorts, when competing. These pants should be a solid color such as black or white (not denim colored blue jeans or sweat pants). Black pants have become traditional in the US, while competitors in Australia and New Zealand are required to wear solid white pants. All competitors should also be required to wear a shirt or singlet when competing. It should be noted that, as sponsorship of the competitors increases, it is becoming increasingly problematic for contest organizers to require the wearing of specific, contest provided shirts. The USAA now recommends that the wearing of contest provided shirts be optional for each competitor.

12 piece bucket 02-11-2011 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daryl (Post 82292)
That's a lot of "white" pants and a lot of "Right Arm" Swinging. :)

That's a line out of Mike O's latest stab at an autobiographical country-techno-disco-polka song . . . . look for him on Idol next season . . . after the operation of course.

Daryl 02-11-2011 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12 piece bucket (Post 82293)
That's a line out of Mike O's latest stab at an autobiographical country-techno-disco-polka song . . . . look for him on Idol next season . . . after the operation of course.

I think you're right.......It looks a little San Francisco-ish to me. Country-techno-disco-polka. :laughing9 I thought he already had the operation?

innercityteacher 02-11-2011 10:52 AM

Big Bang Theory
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drewitgolf (Post 82287)
It is the three all-encompassing Primary Concepts of TGM on which all details can be easily attached as they surface.

My favorite video...

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...oel-Class.html

Trust me, Drew, I can hit something on purpose. :whistle:

I can drive that thing several feet in an intended direction. :thumright

But then it begins to move left or right dozens of yards away from my target. :eh:

Or it moves straight but not far enough. I see the point about the essential nature of club face control and LAG. I need to learn how to completely control those two things and the Pivot will take care of itself, I believe.

It's easy to blow things up. It's easy to hit someone with an axe ( Chicago story Daryl). It is hard to launch a rocket to the moon or a ball to a green!

ICT

O.B.Left 02-11-2011 11:05 AM

I'd like to know what your intentions are .....
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by drewitgolf (Post 82285)
Keep going O.B. You are getting warmer.


Guys help me out here. Drew's been teasing us for years with this stuff and we gotta get him to come clean with what he knows, finally. For the good of golf kind. He's like freak'n Denise Milani with this stuff or something.

Mike O. knows too I bet. Maybe different takes on it ... Come on guys...we all want to automate our pivots like those wood chopper dudes.


What the best way to fix your pivot? Work on your pivot or work on....something else, your intentions maybe? Which is all about the hands, direction of force ......chopin wood?

tim chapman 02-11-2011 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by O.B.Left (Post 82297)
Mike O. knows too I bet. Maybe different takes on it ... Come on guys...we all want to automate our pivots like those wood chopper dudes.
What the best way to fix your pivot? Work on your pivot or work on....something else, your intentions maybe? Which is all about the hands, direction of force ......chopin wood?

i think one thing OB is that they have no choice, swinging those things with that kind of force requires the body to get involved, the arms couldn't do it on their own - not so with golf we can have a predominatly arms-swing without the body bringing too much to the party

innercityteacher 02-12-2011 01:15 AM

I axed for it!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by tim chapman (Post 82302)
i think one thing OB is that they have no choice, swinging those things with that kind of force requires the body to get involved, the arms couldn't do it on their own - not so with golf we can have a predominatly arms-swing without the body bringing too much to the party

Was fooling around with the Jim Hardy stuff tonight for the first couple of holes in the simulator and Friday night league and was hooking everything off the planet. I was so lost! I was 4 over on 3 holes :rolleyes:

And then....:laughing1

I AXED FOR IT :exclaim:

I pretended the ball was the base of a tree. I RFT'd and stepped toward the tree and swung my axe right at the ball. I pushed the shot ....50 yards further than my usual 187 yards. I wound up 8 over for the 18 holes with 3 birdies!

Great fun! Good bye Mr. Hardy. Hello Paul Bunyan and Babe!


ICT


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