Hogan and EA
 

Did Ben Hogan Use Extensor Action?

Where did he write about his application of Extensor Action, if he did use it?

HB

Hogan wrote about keeping one arm extended in the swing at all times in 5 Easy lessons.

Yes-BUT...
 

After consideration- I do believe that Hogan had alignment elements that produced ALL the transcribed elements (1-4) of 6-B-1-D but I also believe that Hogan would have described the feel and alignments in a "different" way. That does not necessarily make either feel superior only different. And TGM provides, in fact encourages , such individuality.

HB

Hogan said that he wished he had three right hands. I believe there were some right sided drive loading going on.

Which is a bit similar to extencior action except that it is active and not just structural support.

Has anyone found any statement by Hogan that refers to what he meant by 3 right hands? If the Pivot Drives the Right Forearm and the Right Hand Drags the Club, would someone say that they want 3 right hands. What if you were pulling a heavy cart?

My #3 Pressure Point, on occasion, returns to the aft side of the shaft. When that lucky moment happens, I too would like 3 right hands. It "Feels" like my right hand was going along ok, and then suddenly went under-water. It's additional resistance to overcome. It's like my right hand is slicing through the water with a right hand Karate chop, and then, when my Right Hand rotates and faces down the Angle of Approach, it's like trying to "Push" an open palm directly against the water.

I don't know; I'm thinking again. :)

Now I'm hopelessly confused. Isn't the #3 pp ALWAYS supposed to be on the aft side of the shaft?:confused1

My thinking fwiw
 

I think (that qualifies my comment) that Hogan talks about this where he mentiones the "two handed basketball throw"-AND- trying to break the bulls eye. like "drag the wet mop". I am more and more convinced that #3 pp is ONLY for sensing. IT NEVER moves the lever assembly. If #3 pressure gets to high (a pressure) it is due to poor release. When the impact bag is used- Hold against the bag- not push the club head against the bag but hold your lever assembly against the bag- ALL the way down to your feet.

None of this is Hogans EA

Again - just my feel

HB

I'm saying that my hands slow because of Throw-out. I don't always have that amount of precision. But when I do, the Hand slows and I'm forced to push a little. I'm not pushing against the #3 PP. I feel the Slowdown with my Right Hand. I'm pushing with the Palm of the Right Hand to resist the Slow-down.

I think (AGAIN just me thinking) that is exactly it. the trying to keep hands moving. I think that is why Hogan wanted more hands



HB

Then we're on the same page. :notworthy I hope it's the right one. :thumleft:

I love that super heavy inertia feeling.

I push with pp#1. But that's hardly a secret by now:laughing9

Unfortunately I am not able to pruduce that kind of action on every stroke. Far from it.

Thanks for this discussion. I am taking it in and ruminating.
Some time ago I was trying to really stress pp#1 and usually liked the feel as well as the fact I was maintaining my flying wedges and some lag for the first time in my life. Sometimes shots would be a bit to the right and in the beginning that didn't matter since I was striking it so well, but it then became a concern.
Focusing a little more on #3 straightened things out quite a bit and I have been actually hitting more targets, greens especially, than ever before.
Then I noticed my left hand was getting a little too weak and my grip alignments were a little off. If it isn't one thing, its another. I am not complaining though, because now I actually have a bit of a clue what to do to make a correction instead of a compensation.
Geez, I love this TGM stuff.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksPOfvuQWZA

I believe Mr Hogan is describing what we would term Indirect Drive, Inertia , Lag Pressure at the index finger, on the aft of the shaft , associated with Radial Acceleration.

I can't get that term "Indirect Drive" in my head. Would you help explain the differences between "Direct" and "Indirect Drive" in the Sections below?

My lnterrpritation- Mover of the primary lever assembly - pp1 or 4-direct drove - pick-up the lagging lever and drag or push is indirect-example might be the "5 yard" interval pressure for partial shots.

HB

Explain indirect and direct in those sections? ......No can do. Homer's got a certain way with words doesnt he? Might need Yoda for that one.

My current state of understanding cant be found in the good book, (which is never a good indicator) but to paraphrase 7-11. ( I wont use quotation marks cause im playing it pretty loose with the words. My apologies).

Power flows from its source (the accumulators) and must be exerted against something (the pressure points) for direct drive of the clubhead through the impact interval. Lag pressure sensed at the #3 or anywhere else since it is a product of inertia only, not thrust, is indirect drive. For its source doesnt flow from the accumulators. It isnt "driving" per say, thrusting. It is however directing and providing sensory feedback for thrust regulation. Geometry and physics combined.

Yoda's gonna puke when he reads this probably.

You explained it well. How does this sound? Accumulator #2 when activated using PP#2 is Direct Drive. When #1 Activates #2 throught the #3 PP, it's Indirect Drive. Hmm? I'll check that against the book and return.

So, when the #1 Accumulator Uses the #1 PP to Activate the Primary Lever, it's Direct Drive. I have no clue why it's called "Passive Direct Drive" for the #2 Accumulator for Swinging, because as far as I can tell, the #1 Accumulator is "Simply Passive".

10-11-0-3 is over my head. I'm going to need a club and do some work.

Would this be ref. sequenced release and simultaneous release??

ALSO

There has to remain some pressure, passive is sufficient, or the whole assembly will want to swap ends - an arrow flies heavy end forward- loose the lag and the system looses control and wants to swap ends, "ground loop" so to say. ( There is some physics to ponder)

HB

Here is another reference to "Direct" and "Indirect" Drive. Indirect Drive is exerted against Clubhead Lag. Now I have a bunch of stuff to figure out. Clubhead Lag is that Slight Flex in the Clubshaft that allows feel of the Clubhead.

Maybe this will help. Or not. At least it provides information that gives pause to some discussion.

http://www.tutelman.com/golf/shafts/ShaftLab1.php?ref=

ps. Can you see, from the data, that PJ is a swinger??

HB

I think I'm on to something to explain the possibility of "4 Barrel Swinging".

Tell me what you think. Hmm? Maybe this has been said already.

Accumulator.........Pressure Point
#4.....................#4
#2.....................#2
#3.....................#3, Indirect Drive of Accumulator #1

Just saw this HB thanks. VEry interesting.

Bear, I finally found the Yoda post from a few years ago that will answer your question re Hogan and Extensor Action.

The answer is: YES. See post #10 in the following link.

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/thread5458.html


OB

Thanks O.B. - there is a time when the guest way down at the end of the table join the toast and appreciate the invitation. This is one of those times.
Salute.

The Bear