Swamp Report
 

Bagger and I were in the Swamp this past week and had a great time.

I came away with some specific items to work on as follows:

1. Pivot. My old "turn" was to turn my shoulders back and load up my right leg with about 90% of my weight. This was causing me to go inside and sway. My new pivot is to start with more weight on my left side and to let the left knee dip a bit. There is still a good bit of weight on my left side at the top - much more than before. I used to think this was a reverse pivot but Yoda convinced me otherwise. This is going to allow me to get the club in a much better position.

2. Extensor action. I learned to add more extensor action than ever before. This will help keep the club on plane and add more structure to my hit.

3. I really learned how to drive down/out/forward until my right elbow passes my "line of sight".

I think these things are going to make a dramatic difference in my action. The teacher can teach but the student must apply. :) I'm going to work on the new items a bit and then hopefully I'll be able to post some before/after pictures of my motion.

There is simply no substitute for hands-on TGM instruction, especially if you can get it from the best in the world! :D

If you get a chance to go to the Swamp or one of the LBG schools - do NOT pass up the opportunity!

Trig....... What a fortunate guy! I'm sure you had a great time. And thanks for all the effort you have put into the board!

I'm trying to clean house on my pivot. I have cleaned up 2 terminal errors by going to a Square-Open (10-5-B) setup. Sometimes though, I make such a weight shift for the forestroke, I end up with a "chase". Virtually zero weight on my back foot. I saw nothing to this degree in Yoda's and Luke's swings. All leg work was very subtle to maintain perfect balance.

Can you give a guesstimate of weight on the left and right sides at Top, for say .. a midiron. If I leave more weight on the front side it'll wratchet down my disco legs :) even more. I just don't want to overdo it. Thanks.

Charlie

My Swamp Report
 

I can vouch for Trig and I'm going to keep a keen eye on his pivot. It's something I picked up last November from Yoda and will never go back. Ted and Yoda confirmed last week I'm doing it correctly. I heard multiple times, "that looks just like Hogan".

Charlie,

The position as best I can describe it is; At setup you will feel balanced 50/50 between the feet but...you will feel the upper quadriceps in your left leg pushing down on the ground as though you were attempting to level a mound of dirt under your left foot. You will feel "decidedly leftward".
From that position, you should feel like you can launch yourself into a full sprint targetward if you wished. That is your address feel. Think of Ben Hogan and review the video on this site to get the look of it. There is not much perceptable change in weight shift, in fact you can get the feel without a club by taking your address position as described above and simply raising your right hand into an "oath" position, parallel to the plane line about 4 inches behind your squared right shoulder (at address, you are actually taking your right hand to the turned shoulder location). Your left knee will need to flex a bit and your rear-end will rotate targetward to get the right hand there. It's OK to let the right knee straighten but not lock as you turn. (An Option) For many conditioned in pop instruction, this may feel like a reverse pivot but it isn't because your weight isn't shifted to your left foot on the backstroke and right foot on the downstroke. It is quite the opposite.

That's all folks...

Now for a quickie on my swamp report.

I have a tough decision. I have been working on swinging for all of my 6 years of playing golf. I have been determined to make it work and feel very close to taking all of the non-compatible (read hitting) components out. The gotcha is, I made a serious attempt to try hitting last week and demonstrated it with relative ease. In fact, it felt simple and the results were very satisfactory. Ted, Yoda and Trig all agree I'm a natural hitter and should seriously consider using it, but after investing all of this time in swinging I hate to turn in the towel and move on. I have made my decision but am not ready to announce it yet. :D

Other than that, I take my right hand a little too inside the plane which also effects my extensor action. I thought it wasn't inside enough :shock: .
I also need a slight adjustment in my grip to get my #1 pressure point aligned properly.

These seemingly small changes make a big difference.

Bagger

You have options!
 

Bagger,

Why limit yourself to "strictly swinging" or "strictly hitting"? You can do both; just not at the same time.

Re: Swamp Report
 

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Your description of the Pivot and weight shift is interesting.
I once met a fellow that knew Sam Snead's son. He struck the ball very nicely on the range. He told me that Sam did not shift much, if at all on most shots. He felt as if he stayed on his left side.

Ben Hogan also looked as if he did this. John Schlee called Hogan's shift a "dynamic weight shift"... as opposed to a "static" weight shift.

Now... what do you feel is the difference between what you are doing, and the 10-14-C (Shiftless) version?

Re: You have options!
 

Drew,

Exactly!!! That is the decision I've made. You beat me to the punch.

Ted diagnosed my hit as 4-barrel and I don't see any difference in distance between swinging and hitting. There is a noticable difference in ball flight between the two. Hitting has a more boring trajectory and the sound of compression is more pronounced. More importantly, I noticed my misses were much better with hitting, whereas a miss with a swing can be punishing.

Thanks,

Bagger

Your description of the Pivot and weight shift is interesting.
I once met a fellow that knew Sam Snead's son. He struck the ball very nicely on the range. He told me that Sam did not shift much, if at all on most shots. He felt as if he stayed on his left side.

Ben Hogan also looked as if he did this. John Schlee called Hogan's shift a "dynamic weight shift"... as opposed to a "static" weight shift.

Now... what do you feel is the difference between what you are doing, and the 10-14-C (Shiftless) version?

I know Yoda posted that your view of the ball should never change. Thus resulting in a stationary head. If your head is truly stationary
the pivot, weight shirt etc. become less complex with far less motion.

Long Drive Competition
 

Bagger/Trig, thanks for the update on your swamp experiences...always enjoy hearing the post-reports. Trig, give some updates on how the pivot is working out...something I have been workin hard on the last month or so (going to a standard pivot instead of right knee brace pivot).

I remember from earlier posts (when you guys talked about getting together during Masters week) that you mentioned about doing a long drive comp between you guys and Luke the Nuke...wondering if you did this and would you be willing to share the results?!?

Bagger, sounds like hitting could work well for you...hard to make the transition though to somthing you know could be good long term, but hurt your scoring short term...have you tried any hitting since you have gotten back from GA?

Keith

Re: Long Drive Competition
 

Here's how it worked out.

We were in the bays due to the wet weather and I was working on my hitting stroke with the driver. I busted a few that carried as far as my normal swing, about 280 carry. Ted quickly walked over from nowhere with a big grin on his face and said "It's time for the long drive show".

He quickly walked into my bay, no warmup swing.

He hit a guided missle to the back of the range and just over the fence, at least 30 to 40 yards past me. The smile never left his face and he said in typical Ted Fort fashion, "There you go". I dropped my driver, stretched out both arms and bowed repeatedly. He left as quickly as he came in, leaving me in a silent stupor. :D

I haven't taken hitting to the course yet, but I'll let you know how it works out.

Humbly Yours,

Bagger

Re: Swamp Report
 

I'll have to reasearch the book a bit to comment on the 10-14-C question.

Yoda showed me lots of pictures and videos of classic golf swings and they all look "decidedly leftward". We also looked at a bunch of Trevino lesson clips and I can't tell you how many times he talked about having weight on the left side.

Yoda called it a "sag"....that is, letting the left knee sag during the backstroke. But just enough to allow for the right forearm take away to occur.

This pivot change actually was made in Yoda's living room the last night I was in town....haven't hit a ball yet...but will give full report soon!

Re: My Swamp Report
 

Thanks Bagger!.... Although we didn't really get time to work on it, Lynn pointed out the slight lean back of the front knee and the back hip action to get it clear (your rear-end to target). I knew I was overdoing the shift forward. I went through (7-12) and the (9-1) series, but hadn't drilled down yet. Thanks for your 'feel' images, too.

4 barrel Hitter!? They must be rarer than hen's teeth. If you can do it, go for it! I caught a photo of Ted's swing (4 barrel Hitter) with his hands just 10 or 12 inches below his set at Top. His hand speed was already outrunning my shutter speed. I didn't expect that from the Hitter's steadily increasing move to forearm thrust. (I would expect it from the Swinger's "quickish" initiation). Accumulator's #1,2,3 are far from spent at that point in his swing. So I'm suspicious of the #4. It's the combination of the #1 and #4 in the same Stroke, that sets the 4 barrel apart.

I don't want to jack this thread, but maybe you could explain your sequencing of the Accumulators sometime for us 4 barrel challenged.

Charlie

Re: Long Drive Competition
 

Bagger loads for 4-barrel hitting and knows how to deliver it! I was amazed how he just "flipped a switch" and started hitting so well. Yoda also got him on video swinging and hitting and confirmed each motion was being done properly. The man has options!

Bagger,

Thanks for your description of your "feel" at setup for hitting. I finally was able to get out this weekend for the first time (YEAH!) and my results were inconsistent, but it's early. I was on my way to post in the Hitters Emergency section but came across your post on the way there. After reading your description I realize I WAS putting too much weight on my left side at address and was probably doing a reverse pivot. Almost felt like I couldn't get back to the ball. Hope to hit the range after office hours and do it right. Thanks for your post. Still trying to lift the fog--then again, I'm the guy who predicted Tiger would miss the cut in the Masters. It may take a while, but I'm NOT giving up! Have fun everybody. Dr. Dave

Paging Dr. Dave
 

Dr. Dave,

It is a very powerful set up position. Ted told me that after a long practice session, his left quad is sore from the workout. In reality both left and right quads are engaged. As you allow the hips to turn by the motion of the right hand, your weight will shift slightly off the left side to the right but don't overdo it, it can quickly turn into a sway if you aren't careful. It is the hips turning by the motion of the right arm which is a hand controlled pivot. The hip turn will shift the weight if done properly.

It is used for hitting and swinging by the way. The only difference is the downstroke hip motion differs between hitting and swinging. Hitting is a crossline hip motion because hitter is using the Angle of Approach procedure whereas swingers will shift parallel to the plane line for their Arc of Approach procedure. It is the hands that control the hip action.

Poor little ball, it didn't do anything wrong... :D

But hey...this is the lounge and I'm getting way to deep. Where can I get a diet coke around here?

Bagger

Re: Swamp Report
 

OK...just back from the range and a little video taping. I was working on getting the right forearm on plane at address and the new pivot. The right forearm is looking much better. The pivot is looking and feeling pretty good...but I still have a ways to go. I look fine but then try to take the club back just a bit too far and that pulls my head off just a bit. It's moving about 3-4 inches back at the top.....before it was moving 8-10 inches.

Next session: Shorten the swing....apply better extensor action....full report tomorrow.

PS - I was crushing the ball! :D

Re: Swamp Report
 

Not only that, but I think he also told me..."It should almost be the Fourth Imperative."

Re: Swamp Report
 

I hear ya guys! :D

Good stuff tonight!
 

After a long range session with Bagger as my eyes last night, I hit the course tonight with wonderful results.

9 holes: 37, hitting every fairway and every green. Lipped-out a few birdie putts and 3-putted the last hole. :(

I have never hit the ball straighter. The new pivot is really helping. \:D/

Break out the Bubbly
 

That is great news Trig!

Trig has been working diligently to remove some old habits and I think we've turned the corner. Good ole zone 1.

I've learned some things too. I'd better keep my day job for now. :)

Bagger

1. Pivot. My old "turn" was to turn my shoulders back and load up my right leg with about 90% of my weight. This was causing me to go inside and sway. My new pivot is to start with more weight on my left side and to let the left knee dip a bit. There is still a good bit of weight on my left side at the top - much more than before. I used to think this was a reverse pivot but Yoda convinced me otherwise. This is going to allow me to get the club in a much better position.

How many people turn the shoulders the incorrect way?. Thus a bad pivot.
As many people that can't return the forearm to the place where it started at address. Thats how many.
It happened to me until I got the correct feel of the turn. Grab a club and place it on your side (righty golfer - grip handle on your left side. Now set up and put your hands on the shaft and down towards the club head. Now make a shoulder turn while keeping the side of the club still attached to your side. Once you get that feel of the shoulders and pivot (yes it feels like a reverse pivot) you now have a solid foundation to build on........

From EDZ........................Thanks Ed!!!!

Another great way to feel this is to swing a broom . Grip the broom down near the head, and let the handle rest on your left side. Keep the handle on your left side and use the body to swing it back and through.

A broom can be a very good training aid. It can show you the plane line, and that the right wrist bend is on plane with the forearm - and really helps you understand how to turn the body 'through' a shot. In fact I'd bet I can teach someone to swing well using only a broom and a mop!

glad to help....... 8)

Action vs. Re-Action
 

Bob,

How has your post swamp experience been? It was great spending time with you and Doug.

I'm still reeling from the enlightenment on hitting. I've been trying it for a few weeks now and it's growing on me. After 2 weeks I've found hitting to be more accurate than swinging and I'm finding I "trust" it more because the misses still leave me in good shape. After investing in swinging for so many years it's hard to let go of a good friend, but sometimes you have to trade in the smooth ride of a Mercedes for the performance and handling of a Porsche.

Now about the right shoulder for hitting. Yes it can provide "motion" instead of "action" in a 3 barrel procedure, but if you want to launch the rocket off the first stage booster then activate that right shoulder has you would a swing just enough to get pressure point 4 loaded, then use it as a backstop to drive against. Like Ted said, "a four barrel hit is like standing on the hood of a car traveling 20 miles and hour and then springing off of it." The blast off the chest gives that little extra which equates to more thrust. The right shoulder doesn't move much. In fact the travel is not far and the motion really isn't that quick, but as momentum transfers to the arms it makes a big difference.

Trig and I are going to play 36 tomorrow in celebration of his birthday. I'm not putting my swing in the bag so I'll let you know if I'm committing to it, or if I should be committed after the rounds. :D

Bagger

Analogy Correction
 

Swing - Porsche 911 Turbo
Hit - Mercedes SL600

Choices, choices

Bagger

Re: "Swamped"
 

Have fun! I'm in a team match play event this Saturday followed by a shootout.

Bagger and me hit the course today and I tried swinging! It was a lot of fun. I hit some really nice shots but struggled a bit with the timing of the release. Guess I should try this on the range before the course next time!

Anyway, I really like it and will work on it some more for sure. I did pull out a few "hits" when I needed to hit knock-down shots into the wind. It was kind of fun doing both. :D

Re: "Swamped"
 

That's what I'm talking about! I'm not ready to be a full time hitter yet, but when I'm faced with a situation where I need it; Tight fairways, into a stiff wind, approach shots, etc. it's really cool to trust the hit stroke with scoring clubs and dangerous fairways.
But there's nothing like a loose, free, effortless swing that is pounded down the fairway. It's an addiction... :D

Preliminary address takes longer...add the choice between swinging and hitting on each shot and it doubles all of the other options. Club, line, trajectory, wind, obstacles, etc...

Bagger