Pivot Drills
 

Please post Pivot Drills that others may not be aware of. Upload pictures if possible.



The following are the McDonald Pivot Drills.

I recommend that "Exercise #2 and #4" be performed with the club behind the back and through the elbows. I don't recommend #10 and 11 because they promote a roundish Pivot. That may be ok for an Elbow Plane Swinger but not a TSP Swinger or Hitter.

nice to get these together in a handy to print format - thanks D

Paul Bertholy and Bob MacDonald's Blast From the Past
 

Daryl,

Thanks for cleaning up and posting these Bob MacDonald images. I sincerely appreciate it!

Bambam, let's put these in a prominent place in our Gallery. Thanks!


P.S. Interested readers should know that, in the spring of 1982, Paul Bertholy, then 80-something years young and one of the most esteemed PGA of America teachers, gave me his personal copy of Bob MacDonald's 1927 book, Golf. At the conclusion of our two-day training session at his home at Foxfire in Pinehurst, NC, he motioned me out of the front room to a nearby closet. He opened the door, rambled around for a minute or so, and emerged with Bob's book, the same one he had referenced several times in our study. He then offered it up in both hands and said, "I want you to have this."

I was grateful, but dumbfounded:

Why would he give away such a prized possession?

And why to me?

Only now am I starting to get the idea.



:salut:

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/Book...%3D34%26y%3D10

Sorry . . . I just bought this one (my third!). Keep your searches working, and you'll soon find your own.

Thanks for these posts Daryl, and I have a question.
 

It seems in reviewing these exercises, Daryl, that it is possible to lose ( ex. # 11) the "belly-button-handle synchronization." When I do ex. # 2, my back shoulder easily flows all the way back and very far away from the RFT line. Does the depth of the full turn of the back shoulder, driven or invited by my back hip, mandate a certain downswing? Is that where the "out to right field" strike starts from?

It seems to my apprentice padowin gifts that a deep turn needs a deep pp# 4 response with angle hinge to avoid hooking the ball. The # 4 feels UP inviting the back shoulder DOWN then OUT and always FORWARD . It seems like doing ex. # 11 by keying on the belly button is an invitation to OTT land.

In another post of yours I read this evening, you mentioned bending and unbending the back elbow. Am I understanding you to suggest that while turning the hip back, additional elbow bend will make the turn back even deeper (ex. 4) and that the downswing pivot can be at any speed as long as the belly button is ahead of the extended elbow? The combination of the pivot leading the elbow extension negating hooks and adding power?

Is that what hitters do? Reverse and beast the ball with the elbow unbending? There is a lot of power there. Is that why they need aimpoints? With such a deep shoulder turn, I could drive my primary lever very hard as long as I kept the clubface/head on the baseline of the plane, but allowing that club to go so deep with the back shoulder is "hook madness, " unless I drove the lever down to my back heel with an open face.

Or am I just bleary-eyed? :)

Patrick

It seems in reviewing these exercises, Daryl, that it is possible to lose ( ex. # 11) the "belly-button-handle synchronization."

Thank goodness! Your goal is an On-Plane Clubshaft. Does the Plane Align with your belly-button?



When I do ex. # 2, my back shoulder easily flows all the way back and very far away from the RFT line.

Are you purposefully trying to swing on the Elbow Plane? Did you read my advice that said in "Exercise #2 and 4, put the Club behind your back"? Please put the club behind your back and try the exercise again. The right shoulder should not feel like its going "all the way back and very far away from the RFT line". Do this exercise with a "Stationary Head" and the club behind your back.

Does the depth of the full turn of the back shoulder, driven or invited by my back hip, mandate a certain downswing? Is that where the "out to right field" strike starts from?

This is a problem. It's not "so much" that your hips are controlling the shoulder turn but the way you turn your hips. There's no doubt that you have the right shoulder going way too far back and flat if you allow "turning hips" to direct them because that motion takes you off-plane. This is a sure way to make the clubhead go out to right field and rise above plane at and after impact.

Going out to right field is the "out" feel of the Downstroke. It is not intended for your shaft and clubhead to literally go to right field (Rise above the plane) at impact and follow-through. You must stay on-plane for a three dimensional impact. Use a Laser. I have a "Smart Stick Laser" that I use and I can "Rip" it through the Impact interval and I'm perfectly On-Plane but if I Turn too deep on the backstroke, like you, then the Laser goes to Right Field. That's not good and Impact is not a good time to use compensations.

It seems to my apprentice padowin gifts that a deep turn needs a deep pp# 4 response with angle hinge to avoid hooking the ball. The # 4 feels UP inviting the back shoulder DOWN then OUT and always FORWARD . It seems like doing ex. # 11 by keying on the belly button is an invitation to OTT land.

Did you read my advice at the beginning of the post? It says "I do not recommend #10 or 11 because they promote a roundish pivot". And, unless you want to swing on the Elbow Plane or out to right field, avoid them "like the Plague".

In another post of yours I read this evening, you mentioned bending and unbending the back elbow. Am I understanding you to suggest that while turning the hip back, additional elbow bend will make the turn back even deeper (ex. 4) and that the downswing pivot can be at any speed as long as the belly button is ahead of the extended elbow? The combination of the pivot leading the elbow extension negating hooks and adding power?

If you rotate your hips around to turn them, then your right shoulder will go very deep and too flat and throw everything off plane. Please refer to exercise #5 and 6. March in-place while you swing your arms and you will learn the KEY to swinging on the TSP and how the Pivot can be aligned to automatically move the right shoulder On-Plane/Down-Plane every time without any effort. Keep the balls of your feet on the ground and lift your heels as you march. Experiment by exaggerating the "march" for you to feel that the Hips and Shoulders move differently but are synchronized. Don't pull the arms down, let the pivot do that. Notice that your Hips move in an alternating pattern from front to back and back to front while your shoulders move kind of up and down.

Please notice that your hips turn, but you aren't rotating them. The bending and straightening knees allow the turn.

HK said that if you can't get the right shoulder back to the plane during the backstroke, then use a steeper plane. In other words, use a TSP. Normal people don't have a problem getting the shoulder back to the Turned Shoulder Plane because it isn't very Far Back. In fact, from the deep shoulder turn you've become accustomed too, it will feel barely back at all.

Is that what hitters do? Reverse and beast the ball with the elbow unbending? There is a lot of power there. Is that why they need aimpoints? With such a deep shoulder turn, I could drive my primary lever very hard as long as I kept the clubface/head on the baseline of the plane, but allowing that club to go so deep with the back shoulder is "hook madness, " unless I drove the lever down to my back heel with an open face.

no. :eyes: :laughing9

WONDERFUL THREAD DARYL!!!

Thank You,
Kevin

Lynnard . . . you still got your lead pipe? Mr. Bertholy was a TASKMASTER. I went to see him just before he died. I had just purchased the Machine . . . tried to read it . . . didn't get it . . . looked up golf skools on the intreenet and Mr. Bertholy's said he could make you swing like Hogan. So I decided I'd better go see him . . . pretty interesting stuff . . . and man his wife could make a good chicken salad samich. I remember him karate chopping wiffle balls to make them spin on a lunch table and popping you with pencils to illustrate #2 throw out snappy releaseeez.

This gallery has been there for a while, but I will update with Daryl's latest scans:

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/index.p...20861548192705

Full Screen Slideshow

Wow great stuff D.

I like exercises 10 and 11 personally. I see your objections, but think the exercises to be primarily body drills, Zone 1 and really more for the backswing than the downswing. The downswing for full shots normally having some Hip Slide , Axis Tilt as well as some lag to the Arms trailing the Body.

Per 7-12 the Pivot is a massive rotor that sets up the gyroscopic nature of the golf swing. In an actual golf swing, the Hands at about the position illustrated in exercise 11 appear to have Turned but they are still vertical to the Horizontal plane , the ground assuming, Horizontal Hinging. Most guys actually turn the forearms independently and often with a stalled Pivot, no clearing of the Right Hip and hence Mr Macdonalds drill number 10 and 11. The Forearms are Turned per say, but not independently! The Pivot can do much of it. Arm travel and forearm turn on the backswing are not as big as you would assume when isolated!

The first few inches of my swing feel exactly like exercise 10. Is this Pivot to Hands? Yes, briefly I guess, for me anyways. I feel like my turning right hip starts the club back on its journey. It goes really well with a Lagging Takeaway. As soon as I start to Right Forearm Pickup and Trace (1-L-6) the Hands are going Up as well as Back and In. And thereby on plane. Three dimensional Start Up. Lynn says the Hands can start Up right off the start though if you wish. You have to get into the Divergent Vectors of the Pivot and Arms to get this fully.

In short if you add a Right Forearm Pickup and 1-L-6 to Macdonald drill number 10 you've got Hands to Pivot and whatever plane angle you want. TSP or otherwise. Like you I prefer the TSP.

Doing just as illustrated in drills 10 and 11 would be Pivot to Hands and non planar for sure. But the body as rotor , Zone 1 is still critical to the golf swing. Hence the drill. Its a pure turn on an axis with no head Bob or Sway. Its sort of like how the 1-L machine without a second hinge pin would describe a cone shaped, non planar, Single Horizontal motion. Hence the second hinge pin, hence Dual Horizontal. The second Hinge Pin is not in the PIvot! The Pivot does not dictate the Plane Angle unless you are Pivot to Hands! Which would require a precise amount of waist bend to achieve a usable Plane Angle without a compensation of some sort.

I dunno. I've got a few videos of Lynn covering off these drills number 10 and 11 and a few other PIvot drills. Ill ask him if he would mind me putting them up on Youtube for all to see.

Lynn, sorry for the thread jack but this seems the right moment.........would you care to contrast Mr Bertholy's "Rod and Claw" with Homer's inert left arm and Extensor Action?

You, again, seem uniquely placed to give the ultimate description of both methodologies and so I must ask. Rod vs String so to speak. They both have merit to my mind.

Regards.

P.S. My apologies to Daryl for taking this great thread into Zone 2.

Zone 1 will cause Zone 2 Problems

By moving the head off the ball during the Backstroke, it may remain there.

In the sequence below, #7, the Hips are out of alignment both Forward and front to back resulting in severe Axis Tilt and a Clubhead that rises above the Plane at Impact and Follow-through.

This Faulty Axis Tilt prevents his Left Hip from Turning as much as it needs. This Blocks his right hip from moving forward and forces it out toward the Plane Line too early. This prevents his right shoulder from continuing Down-Plane and Forward.




He may need to do this to get all of the distance he possibly can but imagine what it does to accuracy.

This Faulty Pivot really screws with Low Point, the Right Elbow, Impact Hand Location, Right Shoulder Location and Path, etc, etc.


Bobby shows some of the same Pivot issues.

Having your head that far back keeps your shoulders that far back too. I bet his head doesn't move when he hits from his knees.

I noticed that on Bobby Clampett's actual drive his head swayed back even more. Not an unusual thing for a good player by any means but not necessary to my mind. I wondered if it was a compensation which moved his Left Shoulder back and gave him more time to Release. If thats what it is then you have to wonder if he could accomplish much the same thing without the Sway by just teeing the ball more forward in his stance. Dont get me wrong Id love to have Bobby's swing.

Those long drive guys have 4' long drivers or whatever and tend to Sway back too, I think to give them more time to Release their super long lever. You'll notice how Sadlowski's Sway increases during his Release, frames 5 to 6. There are ballistic, launch angle considerations too for sure, like he is creating an artificial up hill shot.

He's Canadian though and those guys are all kinda nutso, eh?

A Zone 1 compensation for a Snap Release related problem .......Bucket is going to be all over this one, I bet.

On the other hand, the head doesnt necessarily need to be positioned dead center between the feet does it? Isnt it dependent on the shot at hand? If you are in a fairway bunker or chipping or pitching or hitting out of the rough wouldnt you have your head more over your left side? Ive always noticed how Homer positioned his Head a little back of centre in this photo of him at Fix. From this position he wouldnt need to Sway back dynamically during the swing, its pre set, Fixed in a manner in accordance with the shot at hand.


http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=127999114 2

Aye OB,

Ya, Ben Doyle does it too. There's no excuse for it.

Sadlowski uses a 6.5 degree driver. He creates extra axis tilt so he can hit up on the driver - low spin high launch = long drives. No other way to do it but lean right and it up. JS can carry the ball 365 yds plus I have witnessed it in person.

pivot drills.
 

Ben taught me to put my head over my right knee at address. Do you have pics of ben at address.

Yup, know what you mean, honestly , but it's a different game that one.

In TGM terms what you call "extra" Axis Tilt is a Head Sway. Not what you'd want for precision, Mechanically. You wouldnt design a machine that had an axis wobble, it would be imprecise and prone to wear and tear.

Having said that, I do lean back on occasion and let er fly. Its a type of shot.

Hey Daryl, let me ask you to do me a favor...
 

This is a problem. It's not "so much" that your hips are controlling the shoulder turn but the way you turn your hips. There's no doubt that you have the right shoulder going way too far back and flat if you allow "turning hips" to direct them because that motion takes you off-plane. This is a sure way to make the clubhead go out to right field and rise above plane at and after impact.

Going out to right field is the "out" feel of the Downstroke. It is not intended for your shaft and clubhead to literally go to right field (Rise above the plane) at impact and follow-through. You must stay on-plane for a three dimensional impact. Use a Laser. I have a "Smart Stick Laser" that I use and I can "Rip" it through the Impact interval and I'm perfectly On-Plane but if I Turn too deep on the backstroke, like you, then the Laser goes to Right Field. That's not good and Impact is not a good time to use compensations.


If you rotate your hips around to turn them, then your right shoulder will go very deep and too flat and throw everything off plane. Please refer to exercise #5 and 6. March in-place while you swing your arms and you will learn the KEY to swinging on the TSP and how the Pivot can be aligned to automatically move the right shoulder On-Plane/Down-Plane every time without any effort. Keep the balls of your feet on the ground and lift your heels as you march. Experiment by exaggerating the "march" for you to feel that the Hips and Shoulders move differently but are synchronized. Don't pull the arms down, let the pivot do that. Notice that your Hips move in an alternating pattern from front to back and back to front while your shoulders move kind of up and down.

Please notice that your hips turn, but you aren't rotating them. The bending and straightening knees allow the turn.

HK said that if you can't get the right shoulder back to the plane during the backstroke, then use a steeper plane. In other words, use a TSP. Normal people don't have a problem getting the shoulder back to the Turned Shoulder Plane because it isn't very Far Back. In fact, from the deep shoulder turn you've become accustomed too, it will feel barely back at all.


...please keep a couple of things in mind. 1) I am greatful for the time you and the other people here spend explaining these great TGM insights. This is an amazing collection of golfers and golf insight. :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy 2) I have had 11 hip operations and two total hip replacements since 1972. When I sleep at night, my left foot sticks straight up by itself. :) (KEEP YOUR MIND OUT OF THE GUTTER!!! ) The doctors at St. Mary's in Winona MN, broke my leg below my knee and rotated it so when I walk, my feet go forward and I do not drag my foot to the side. They were concerned about my social standing with members of the opposite sex not my ability to swing a golf club! :eyes:


( I AM REALLY TEMPTED HERE TO ABUSE PEOPLE FROM A SMALL NORthEASTERN STATE BUT I AM RESTRAINING MYSELF. :) )

(THANK GOD JOHN WAYNE WAS POPULAR WHEN WE WERE YOUNGER. WHEN GIRLS INQUIRED ABOUT MY ANGULAR GAIT, I ASKED THEM HOW THEY FELT ABOUT JOHN WAYNE. I TOLD THEM I WAS A COWBOY WITH ALL THE ACCESSORIES..WHO KNEW THE BOY SCOUT KNOTS WOULD BE SO USEFUL?...BUT I DIGRESS! :laughing9 )

When I do those /these exercises my sense of balance is very different from yours or anyone else! I am very, very confused :confused1 by the "synchronization" of my hips , shoulders and knees because I have not had a "normal" sense of coordination in 38 years. I do not wear a 1.5" lift in my left shoe because such lifts are illegal in USGA competition which is my ultimate goal, though that is the shortness in my front or left leg.

When I do exercises 2 and 4, it feels like I am walking up and down a flight of stairs, for example.

When you or another experienced TGM person explains something to me, I practice the insight for weeks. One of my regular foursome shot an "80" last week with every lucky bounce and he has an "18" hcp. Today, he shot a 93.

Because of TGM, I have shot a 42, 44, 42, 44, and 43 on the last 45 holes. I know I can shoot par or better, on purpose, on a regular basis if I can "translate" the TGM into my kinetic language and I know if I can apprehend those insights, I can teach them to others, regardless of their physical, social, emotional or intellectual perspectives.

SO BEAR WITH ME DARYL, I'M PADDLING AS FAST AS I CAN! :salut:

What I think you are saying Daryl, and again, thankyou for making the effort, (I mean it !) is:

1) The proper pivot is an organic motion that starts from the "use of the ground" going up. "The leg bone is indeed connected to the hip bone..."

2) The plane is the thing, first, last and in the middle.

3) Turning my back hip as a startup key is a disaster since the back shoulder is thrown far off plane.

4) The TSP is no joke. The left hand is kept on plane and the back or right shoulder is correctly aligned as a result.

5) The TSP prevents OTT when controlled from the ground up. Per exercises, 5 and 6, the shoulders must be held in front while marching, as much as possible. (That's the benefit of RFT and tracing the BLP as they keep the power package in front?) (Is this why Lynn emphasizes the "clapping motion" so much since the shoulders hardly move while doing that motion?)

6) For regular folks, marching while keeping the spine on the ball, thus the shoulders as forward as possible will force a coordination between knees and arms always on plane (front knee moves to the BLP, the arms move up-plane and vice-versa.). THOSE SWINGING ON PLANE ARMS ALLOW A PERSON TO HIT THE HECK OUT OF THE BALL!


Am I getting warmer? :)

Patrick

Ya, that's good.

Walking up and down stairs? Hmm? Ya, it's kind of like a "Stair Climber or Stair Stepper machine at the gym. So,, your feeling isn't far off.

The McDonald Drills are very, very good drills.

I'm not pushing or rushing you to improve. Hell, I don't expect you to shoot par for another month or two. Take your time. If you need an afternoon off from full stroke training; well ok. But, use this time to practice putting or bunker shots. :laughing9

LMAO !We don't have much sand in our bunkers.
 

Very thin bottoms of the bunkers. I open my 58 degr. wedge, play it back in the stance, lean forward (ball position reacts to depth of the bunker), and pick it. We putt out or hybrid out, a lot, too. EA keeps it and everything else on track, everything. The ball checks and releases quite often. But I have given up thread jacking for Lent so I will pursue this, later.

Thanks again, Daryl, everyone. :)

Patrick

been trying to print the exercises but they are tiny, any idea how to print them?

From the Gallery/photos/MacDonald drills- Click/right click-print- one by one. Windows based I am assuming.

The Bear

picasa
 

That will work, or you can go here:

http://picasaweb.google.com/lynnblak...cDonaldDrills#

And choose download->print with picasa.

You'll have to also download picasa (free) here:

http://www.google.com/picasa

Recently, I have been frustrated with my pivot sequence, just couldn't get it right. I read Watson's recent book, The Timeless Swing, and tried using his recommended drills for keeping the spine angle. It just was not working for me. I returned to the MacDonald drills, particularly numbers 10 and 11. They have been the key for me. Using those drills gives me a feel for what "turning in a barrel" is supposed to be. Combining the entire set of drills has worked wonders with my pivot sequence. My thought is that the entire set of drills is useful for ingraining the basic golf swing. Thanks again to Yoda for introducing them to me at least three years ago!

I finally started using the MacDonald drills in my teaching this year. They have changed the way I teach and play golf.

Kevin

There is a danger of getting so hands and release conscious that the pivot loses its required dynamics. Those drills really help.

Doesn't take that long to have the desired effect, just a few minutes a day and they work right into the swing.

I recall JWN stating that he would start every golf season swinging with his feet together, so he could get the proper weight shift and ankle roll.

Sound familiar?

Footwork and Balance
 

"Ankle roll" is fine, as long as its Weight Shift doesn't roll the foot over and lift the outer edge.

On the backstroke, the left heel may lift, but the outer edge of the sole remains on the ground (as the weight shifts to the inside ball of the foot). Through Impact, the right foot similarly rolls (and its heel lifts). Then, the foot is dragged through by the Finish turn of the right hip (witness the sliding foot action of Hogan, Knudsen, Nelson, and so many more of the great champions).

I know that Jack Nicklaus rolled the edge of his left foot off the ground on the backstroke, then lifted his heel. But he succeeded in spite of that Balance disruption, not because of it.

Why did he do it?

Because that's what his teacher, Jack Grout, taught him to do (in the '50s).

And why did Mr. Grout teach him that move?

Because that's what his teacher, Henry Picard, taught him to do (in the '40s).

And why did Mr. Picard teach him to do that?

Because that's what Alex Morrison, the book guru and extremist theorist taught him (in the '30s).

That doesn't make it right, of course. But, that's the way it went down.

Position Golf is not Alignment Golf. Those who would play their best recognize the difference.

:salut:

That was the "Final Missing Piece" of the MacDonald Exercises for me, it put it all together in my mind... No more need to feel "pressure" on the left foot on the backstroke, just the proper alignment of the left foot. Seems like such a little thing, but it is HUGE.

Thanks YODA!

Kevin

Chair drill
 

Sliding and tilting instead of turning in the back swing is a common problem. There are many chair drills I guess, but this one works very well for reducing sliding, enforcing proper rotation and a proper weight shift during transition. It looks like this:




<------------------- (target line & direction)

|OO/ (back of left chair, your butt, back of right chair)

In the back swing turn your right hip so that it traces the back of the right chair. This will promote a stationary pelvis and eliminate a back swing hip slide that can cause tonnes of problems.

During transition & early down swing bump the left chair so that it tilts and falls over. This will promote proper weight shift, move the pivot center to where it needs to be and produce the required secondary axis tilt.

I learned the drill somewhere else but it seem to be very compatible with Aligment golf and Yoda's preference towards eliminating lateral motion.

Great stuff BerntR! :salut: :salut: :salut:

Stance width and measurement to the ball impact this mre than one would think. If you get too narrow and close with the long clubs, it makes it tough to turn and keep that left foot from rolling. When I widen my stance, these elements of foot movement are a lot easier.

Four generations of women are gathered with loved ones for a Sunday night roast beef dinner.

The youngest is putting the roast in the oven when her fiance inquires: "Why do you cut the ends off the roast honey?"

"Thats what Mom always did, I dont know, go ask her".

To which Mother replies "I dont know go ask Grandmother"

To which Grandmother replies " I was taught to do that by Great Grand Mother , lets go ask her".

Finally Great Grandmother smiles and says; " Well we had a very small oven back in those days and I had to cut the ends off the roast so it'd fit."