In Homer's Own Words
 

Here's a classic sequence previously posted of Bobby Clampett with commentary by Mr. Homer Kelley...it's still a good one...enjoy:)

Who wrote the caption commentary and who wrote the below picture commentary? The caption commentary was very kind.

I hardly call that a TGM swing. Not even close.

That not unusual. Todays game is Power-the-drive and short game magic. Ya see a lot of tgm IN THE SHORT GAME. None in the Long.

Daryl,

With all due respect Sir, that really surprises me.

At that time Bobby Clampett was really the poster boy for TGM. As a student of Ben Doyle, do you think some of Mr. Kelley's teachings were being misunderstood, or do you feel Mr. Doyle was teaching his own theories rather than directly from the book? What do you feel constitutes a TGM swing?

Thanks,
Kevin

False Advertising.:eyes:

Either Misunderstood, or Ignored. :confused1

Either he was teaching his own theory, or he misunderstood, or he ignored or maybe Bobby Clampett was learning his own theory despite what he was taught. :confused1

Without the "Right Forearm Take-Away", "Magic of the Right Forearm" and "Extensor Action" and the "Right Forearm Flying Wedge", it's not a TGM Swing and almost none of the 24 components or their Variations apply or have the same meaning. People need to understand that TGM is a Method, not simply a Dictionary of Terms.

Bobby Clampetts Swing doesn't use any one of those Concepts. Not One. If he gets the Forearm on plane at all, it's only at impact.

Look; whoever did the analysis next to and below the pictures, knew that Bobby Clampett lost the Hands Controlled Pivot (Alignment Golf) at Start-up. He never recovered. Even I can tell that he doesn't use any of the Big Four. If you knew (I mean, when you learn,completely, and you will) the Big Four, you would know that too.

The Guy closest to a TGM swing was Ben Hogan. And even BH used a Shoulder Turn Take-away. Closest does not mean he was TGM.

Thank you Daryl. I always appreciate your insight!

:salut:

Kevin

I believe the text below the pictures are Mr. Kelley's own words.

Yup. Homers original text below. The magazines version above. The Homer text provided by Yoda, I believe. An insight into the workings of the editorial department at the magazine.

Right On Both Counts
 

As Homer would say: "Kee-rect!"

:)

Paging Daryl
 

Not a TGM Swing??? There is NO TGM Swing.

People need to understand that TGM is a Method??? Are you saying a "THE Way"?

The Big Four??? I didn't see any of those listed as Imperatives or Essentials. I am not saying that your "Big Four" are not important, but it appears you trying to re-write the book?

Drew,

I know I'm just a rookie, but I look at TGM as THE fundamentals to use while building ANY swing. I think all great methods need to be based upon TGM fundamentals...

Kevin

Buliding Blocks
 

Kevin,

There are trillions of effective, precision patterns that are based on Geometry (Alignments) and Physics (Power). Geometry and Physics are your Fundamentals. "Great" Methods and Procedures are the flexible framework that must adhere to those scientific Principles.

Drew

WONDERFUL EXPLANATION!:salut:

Thanks Drew,
Kevin

From the way I interpret it there really is no such thing as a 'non-TGM' type of swing (I guess unless you do not obey the 3 imperatives, then you can say that), but Clampett's swing pattern had a lot of components that Mr. Kelley probably would not have 'encouraged', for a lack of a better word.

Of course, I'm intermediate at best with my knowledge of TGM, but perhaps Ben and Clampett did work on right forearm takeaway and it was something that Clampett struggled with so much that they truly decided it was a 'personal preference' deal. Cool to see the real Homer Kelley notes though.



3JACK

Correct me if I'm wrong, but...
 

From what I've read, Ben and Homer had some different preferences on stroke patterns, components, and variations (for example, pivot controlled hands vs. hands controlled pivot). What Ben saw in the little yellow book was a precise and effective way of describing and teaching the components and their variations. He liked the "what, how and why" of TGM.

Comments?

Alignments of motion and action are fundamental to The Golfing Machine, and Geometry and Physics are tools used which analyze and describe those alignments. Homer Kelley believed that to control the Golf Ball, you must control the Impact point and the Line of Compression (3 dimensional impact).

Joe Amateur and Joe Pro, typically use “Downstroke Casting” (like casting a fishing rod) as a way (method) of swinging the Golf Club to strike the Golf Ball. This method “allows” and “Encourages” Acute Elbow Bending and Right Wrist Cocking. Look at any Golf Swing on Tour or at the practice range, and you’ll see the following swing.

A Shoulder Turn Take-away with Both arms straight then, halfway up the backstroke, the elbow draws into the side of the Torso to fold the Right Elbow and Cock the Right Wrist. The Downswing sequence begins with a torso spin to throw the right arm and right wrist into a casting motion toward the Ball. Practice this with the right arm as though you’re casting a fishing rod, and then perform the same casting motion down plane at the ball. Then watch the Pros and Amateurs to witness this procedure in action.

When I read people say that it’s a little easier to Hit (as in Hitter) the Ball if they keep the Elbow a little tighter to the Torso, I cringe. “Downstroke Casting”.

Homer Kelley replaced “Downstroke Casting” with the “Big Four”. He replaced the common method of the day, with His Method. Nobody listened. NOBODY UNDERSTOOD. :( What’s curious is that most of the pros since Bobby Jones, have used the “Big Four” in their short games and some from full five irons on down to the Lob Wedge. The Problem is, is that they don’t even know it. :confused1

The Golfing Machine :study: is a framework, a method that the variations of the 24 components can hang and be used successfully to one degree or another. However, the variations are not the only variations available to the 24 components. They are the variations that include Zero, Full, and optional motions useful for the “Big Four”.

Consider this; Homer Kelley agreed that Right Arm Swinging is true Swinging Procedure and that it allowed for a “Bent Left Wrist” at Impact. Is that in the Book? A mention perhaps, but no; because it isn’t compatible with the Flying Wedges. Homer named the Big Four. He “BRANDED” them. They are the heart of the Golfing Machine and the Core to his method.

Why isn’t “Right Arm Casting” in the Book? Because it’s the antithesis of the Golfing Machine. You may try to explain “Right Arm Casting” as a “Right Arm Throw”, but that explanation can be easily disproved.

"Faces" in the crowd
 

Daryl,

I applaud your efforts and the quest you are on. I don't believe that this forum has had anyone, other than Lynn and a select few, with your sustained energy and your contributions are always enlightening.

Question for you. Of your Big Four,which you say, "are the heart of the Golfing Machine and the Core to his method", "Right Forearm Take-Away", "Magic of the Right Forearm" and "Extensor Action" and the "Right Forearm Flying Wedge"...which one controls the Clubface?

:laughing9 :laughing9 You are Truly thinking like The Golfing Machine.

"HINGE ACTION" :laughing9 :laughing9

Now it's the "BIG FIVE". Are there any more? :)

1. "Right Forearm Take-Away",
2. "Magic of the Right Forearm"
3. "Extensor Action"
4. "Right Forearm Flying Wedge"
5. "Hinge Action"

I think that if this list gets above Eight (8), then we might have a Golf Method on our hands.

You don't even have to obey the 3 imperatives . . . . Mr. Kelley said throwaway was valid if it was done intentionally . . . probably wouldn't be advised. I think Mr. Kelley would want you to UNDERSTAND your procedure . . . . There's a sound bite where some of the members of the original AI classes try to get Mr. Kelley pinned down on a "the way". . . . they were like "You don't RECOMMEND anything do you?" He was like "nope."

Pivot controlled hands is valid . . . . check the to 20 on the leaderboard every Sunday . . . . May not be what we should do but there are plent of people who do it at an extremely high level . . . . there's a quote in the books somewhere about maximizing physics with pivot controlled hands.

Excellent!

I agree... Homer said something (audio sometime somewhere) about "i don't care how you take it back..."...meaning it's all about transition - create lag sensation - then store and direct on the downswing...

Although I really appreciate Daryl's recent posts about a method that Homer does put forward amongst the text in which he describes a simple method ...eg. extensor action takeaway...but I am sure that he loved all swings from transition onwards as long as lag was involved!!

But if I were learning from scratch...I would take all of Homer's hints for a simple and repetitive action! and Daryl is currently giving us a "how to" hidden amongst the options ! Thanks Daryl!

I think that was Tommy T and Yoda talking to Mr. Kelley by phone:)

What is a Pattern?:confused1


When can we begin customizing our own Pattern, because I'm a unique individual and I feel more special if I have my very own?":)


But...But...But..., That's not what I want to hear.... Everyone on-line says that there are Trillions of stroke patterns and I get to pick one, so when do I get to pick one? I want my Own. :golf:

So, there are trillions of "Compensated" Stroke Patterns. What are you going to do about them? Pick your own, or Homers?

Daryl,

Just curious if you prefer the basic patterns in the 6th or 7th Editions?

Thanks,
Kevin

The 6th. Somehow, those pages in my 7th no longer exist. :laughing9 :laughing9

Thanks Man, that's the answer I was hoping for...

:golf:

Kevin

Oh yeah, I definitely agree...
 

I definitely use pivot controlled hands when I use any club with a stronger loft than a 6 iron.

Method or System?
 

Yoda's "This is the Golfing Machine" introduction to the Rob Noel Class is a real jewel if you have not seen it or it has been awhile. In his introductory comments, he differentiates between TGM as a system and teaching methods which are characterized as being incomplete.
DRW

I think we should define "method" and "system" . . . .

Doc, is that in our archives?

Thanks,
Kevin

Gallery-Free Videos-LBG Reality TV-This is the Golfing Machine

Definitions
 

Mr. Kelley refers to "this System" in the Preface so he is restricting it to the golfers application (STAR SYSTEM TRIAD). I am sensitive to the use of "method," believing it is viewed negatively because it implies one way.

DRW

Procedure = Single motion or action designed to achieve something.
System = Set of procedures to designed to achieve something.

There may be trillions of component variation combinations but there is only one way each to execute the Concept-Principles, such as,

1. Magic of the Right Forearm... it controls the elbow or not
2. Flying Wedges...they exist or not
3. Accumulators, 4,1,2,3 or whatever
4. Hinge Action Principle, Etc. you either hinge or not.

It's curious that everyone believes in Hinge Actions and Accumulators and the Flat Left Wrist, yet they deem the Magic of the Right Forearm is optional. Hmm?

The Word Method is used 6 Times in The Golfing Machine
System is used 26 times
Procedure is used 190 times
Principle is used 36 times
No mention of Stack and Tilt or Yogi, anywhere.

Hmm? I think that Homer is telling us something.

How did D do that tabulation? Is there a digitized version of the yellow book? Has he tried to edit the yellow book on his own? Rearrange it?

Was he referring to Count Yogi or Yogi Bear?

Who was Double D?