Getting extensor action
 

I know understand that EA goes below plane at address (direction of left arm is below plane).

I think the Ahaa moment is realizing that applying EA to the left hand through pp#1 during the swing will always be below plane even as the R forearm is on plane.

Is this correct?

Something that should be "taught"
 

Yes, Except with zero Accumulator #3.

That lovin' feeling
 

I also have a question concerning the feel of EA being a below plane stretch. I can understand that "below Plane feel" at Fix, Address, Startup, Followthrough but does it become more of an "on Plane" feel as you approach the Top and Startdown as well as when you approach the Finish sections of the motion.

Look out below
 

Rob,

Extensor Action is employed from Impact Fix (or as late as Start Up) to the end of Follow Through. After that it is no longer in use (Finish). During the sections that Extensor Action is working its magic, the left arm is above the Plane (unless #3 is zero'ed out), necessitating the direction of the stretch to be below the Plane. But it does cross the Plane at the point of pressure directing the stretch. As you approach Top, the direction of the stretch is closer to the Plane Angle, but still below it.

Drewit

What are the consequences of stretching along the line of the on plane right arm?

Thanks
ob

Truth or Consequences
 

Disruption of the Geometry of the Circle.

Extensor Action for Swinging & Hitting
 

Extensor action is simple if you use opposing pressures. The right index finger and thumb provide the outward push and the index left finger and thumb provide the inward pull. The opposing pressure of the right index finger and thumb is slightly stronger as you perform the back swing.

For the down swing in swinging the left index finger and thumb pull down plane and the right index finger and thumb push up plane. The left index finger and thumb is slightly stronger as you perform the down swing.

For the down swing in hitting the right index finger and thumb push down plane and the left index finger and thumb push up plane. The thrust from the right arm straightening is added and over powers the up plane push of the left index finger and thumb and provides the hitters release. This action also makes a slow start for the hitter a piece of cake.

Bend and stretch.
 

Im still struggling with this. I get the stretch being below plane when EA is in the direction of the left arm. But why is the stretch in that direction? Or why is the stretch not on plane (in the direction of the right arm)? Would that the change the axis of rotation to the right shoulder or something?

Thanks. I love my EA but there are still some eggs in the incubator. What else is new.
ob

Would this be EA at pp#3 instead of #1 then? Ive only read of this in connection to a chipping method where; starting at adjusted with EA turned off, the application of EA at #3 snaps the club shaft and the hands into impact alignment, the arms relatively still. Not so popular any more, most people starting at fix.

Where could I find your opposing pincher pressures in the book? Im trying to find it. Interesting application.

Regards
ob

It is not in the book. Give it a try. I teach it to many golfers with success.

John W Rohan-Weaver CMAI, GSEM

Should the "amount" of extensor action be proportional to the "amount" of pivot? (but always with EA slightly less than pivot power...I am not trying to quantify force here...just compare).

By that I mean that an inadequate , underpowered pivot can be overcome by alot of extensor action ... and then the right arm moves the left or...some throwaway begins...and that is less than ideal...

But if you want to have a really strong pivot..you need alot of EA to give sufficient structure to Power Package for the hand guidance system to work and control the pivot?

THese are just thoughts...not tested...thanks for any comments.

This is a genius way of describing it. I should laminate and take it to the range. I just wish the rain would let up so I can get back out there.

i've tried this during a few weeks, i got some ok results with driver but started to shank irons like a mad man, back to the drawing board i guess!

Coming to Grips
 

This is more about grip pressure than Extensor Action and IMO not necessary.

12-3 EA Clarification
 

What is meant if 12-3-0 Section 6 #18 Extensor Action - Waggle and Section 7 #25 Extensor Action - Rhythym? Also why is EA left out of Section 8 - Downstroke. Was this ommission on purpose or a missing element?

Agreed. Not a traditional application of TGM grip pressure points either. Hogan, as an aside, was adamant about the pincer muscles not being engaged, was he not.

ob

Rigid Requirements: get in-line
 

Missing Component #29 Extensor Action was indeed a mis-print. Of the twelve sections of 12-3-0, Extensor Action is in all but three sections and should be used while both performing both the Start Down Waggle and maintaining proper RPM's.

Hey BBax

Im thinking: (IMO)

-start down waggles with EA turned on

-rhythm in a TGM sense is the holding of the left arm, left wrist and club at the same RPM. EA is most beneficial in this regard as a throwaway deterrent.

-my 6th edition has EA as the first item in Section 8. What edition do you have? Weird. In fact EA is listed in Sections 2, 4/5,6,7,8,9/10/11. It being turned off by the swinger at adjusted address Section 3 and over by the finish Section 12. Although some may argue that Hogan and Tiger seem to still have a nice long (ish) right arm at finish. Ive often wondered about this.....any ideas anyone?

Is this an application of EA at finish?

http://www.lynnblakegolf.com/forum/a...d=123618090 7

Mass. Appeal
 

Rhythm (roll of the #3 Accumulator) is controlled by the Right Elbow, bending and straightening. So how do we control this Right Elbow that wants to be all over the place? Hope you guessed...by the left arm and the Extensor Action that turns the Left Arm into a leasch. When you control the Right Elbow you control the rate of Clubhead Closing or RPM's (6-B-1-D-3).

Extensor Action was left out of 12-3-0, Section 3, Adjusted Address because to employ to a significant degree will pull you out of a Bent Left Wrist/ Flat Right Wrist Alignment and put you into and Impact Alignment, Flat Left Wrist/Bent Right.

By definition (6-A-4), both arms are not straight until Follow Through (8-11). Assuming your Follow Through isn't your Finish, the Left Arm will now bend and Swivel to the Plane (4-D-0), which means the Left Arm is no longer straight and Extensor Action is no longer employed.

Rob (BBax) is using the 7th edition.

Thanks Drewit

Great post. Ive copied it to my TGM file.

ob


PS That right elbow is getting even more important in my perception of things. The right elbow controlling the roll of #3 power accumulator and the right elbow being held in position by extensor action. Fantastic. No more swiveling through impact with a behaving itself right elbow. The right elbow also cocks the left wrist. Didnt Homer say if he had to do over again he'd build his swing around the right elbow? Or something to that effect.

Right elbow motion and alignments throughout the swing are very, very, very important. Building a golf swing around the right elbow would produce precision and power in the golf swing. Weekend golfers have the right elbow moving incorrectly and out of alignment for most of the swing and try all the golf tips and nonsense to fix the faults when fixing right elbow motion and alignments would do the job.

To Better Golf,
John W Rohan-Weaver GSEM

Thanks Guitar Man.

Then there is John Daly's problem with the right elbow bending too often ...

Hi OH!

Sure enough when I got home and checked my book there was a little question mark besides 6-B-1-D-3. That question mark has been erased and replaced with a little notation. More understanding and hopefully more precision to follow.

Thanks again Drewit.

PS Per 7-3 Basic Strokes......"So, Right Elbow Action either powers and/or controls all three elements of Three Dimensional Impact (6-C-0) per 1-L-9. All this you will come to know as THE MAGIC OF THE RIGHT FOREARM."

so how dos one control the right elbow, what is the correct feel?

I think
 

I think it has to do with 10-3 Elbow positions. Punch for hitting (piston downplane toward the ball), pitch for swinging (skipping rocks onplane).



Drew, or someone in the know: Please elaborate on the EA through pp#3 and EA through pp#1. Why is the first superior to the other?

Hey Thom Ill give it a shot if you dont mind.

IMO, EA via pp #1 is the superior method for full shots. EA at pp #3 being more of a short shot technique where starting at adjusted address the application of EA at #3 straightens the clubshaft AND the left arm in line thereby flattening the left wrist and bending the right. A short shot Loading Action although not so popular anymore, most people starting at fix with impact hands.

This procedure if improperly executed may cause Throwaway however. Per 6-B-1-D Homer advises; " In which case, use only the #1 Pressure Point and pull on the Left Thumb to then hold AT LEAST the Left Arm in-line and retain Power Package structural rigidity." (caps by me)


I may be wrong, but I think this all has to do with increased grip pressure at the #3 pressure point promoting its incorrect use in a direct drive manner as opposed to its normal indirect drive with light grip pressure. The #3 normally only sensing the lag not driving the back of the club. Of the three pressure points in the hands only #3 is indirect the others #1,2 are direct drive points of contact between the Power Accumulators and the Club. Clubhead lag as sensed at #3 is not a Power Accumulator as its release is a loss of power. It has no release point. Any attempt to release it causing a shortening in the swing radius via a bending left wrist, Throwaway.

How'm I doing?

ob

nice OB
 

EA through pp#1 is the way I do it. With hitting, it just feels so easy and structered to have EA and thrust down on the left thumb and the feel of clubhead lag on pp#3.

So for me it's a little difficult to get why EA through pp#3 has some kind of superiority to EA through pp#1. That's what I would like someone to explain.

Hi Thom

Where in the book is the superiority of EA at pp#3 mentioned? Im trying to find it my 6th edition.

ob

All You Need To Know About Extensor Action
 

Years ago, the great mutual fund manager Peter Lynch made the following comment regarding the economy (versus companies, their stocks and the general market):

"If you spend one hour a year studying the economy, you've wasted 30 minutes."

I feel somewhat the same way when discussing the golfer's Extensor Action.

Read my post #27 here: http://lynnblakegolf.com/forum/showt...?t=5653&page=3.

Understand the Extensor Action Principle as defined and demonstrated in the post. Then, translate the Mechanic into its Feel.

Don't rely on your imagination: Put on a long sleeve shirt, sweater or jacket and actually do the 'armless sleeve' exercise. Keep that sleeve s-t-r-e-t--c-h-e-d from Address to Follow-Through (Both Arms Straight position). Then, make that Action happen in your Golf Stroke.

It's all you need to know.

:salut:

It is exactly the image of the armless sleeve that confuses the direction of EA.
When power accumulator #3 is assembled and the left arm rotates, it seems the left arm and the clubshaft are both on plane and travel up the plane together. During this excursion, it seems that any stretching of the left arm must by definition be on plane. For sure, when the club shaft is parallel to the plane line on the ground, the shaft is on plane and EA pulls along the line of the shaft, no?

No On Plane Left Arm
 

Except with Zero #3 Accumulator, the Left Arm Flying Wedge is not On Plane during the Backstroke.

:salut:

I should know better to question Yoda, but what does 6-B-3-O-1 mean
but "except for Ch 8 sec 1 and 3 (prelim and adjusted address) the entire left arm, the clubshaft, and the back of the left hand are ALWAYS positioned against the same flat plane - the plane of the left wrist cock motion."

The "plane of the left wrist cock" is not the same concept as the inclined plane. It is the vertical hammer like cock and uncock of the left wrist with the Left Arm Flying Wedge maintained throughout. The swingers adjusted address where the left wrist is bent and the right wrist is flat being the exception to the maintenance of the LFFW. The hitter starting at Fix on the other hand sees the LFFW held in alignment while the left wrist cock goes from level to cocked to fully uncocked.

The left arm, assuming #3 angle is not zero, is not lying on the inclined plane. Golfers who place the grip more in the palm of the left hand for putting or short chips (basic motion), zero out their #3 angle for power regulation and will then have their left arm on the inclined plane.

ob



ob

The left arm is not riding the inclined plane in the backstroke but is above it assuming the #3 angle is not zero. The popular notion of the clubface being said to be "square" when parallel to the left arm at top or end is incorrect as the left arm is not on plane.

ob

Hi Yoda, in reviewing the alignment golf dvd for the nth time... I finally realised that I was exerting EA wrongly in the direction of the shaft instead of the left arm. I went to the driving range and doing acquired motion was getting laser like shots so much so that a guy next to me inquired what i had changed in my swing. I did not dare telling him about extensor action for fear of looks I would get.:salut: I am the guy from Mauritius a small island in the Indian Ocean, who orderd your alignment dvd.

Two Planes of Motion
 

The Plane of the Left Arm Flying Wedge -- the Perpendicular Plane of the Left Wristcock Motion (Cocking and Uncocking per 4-B-0/1/2/3) -- is not the same as the Inclined Plane of the orbiting Sweetspot.

:)

Island Golfer
 

Good to hear from you plgolfer. You have discovered and affirmed the promise of The Golfing Machine: As each individual alignment is correctly understood and mastered, the golfer experiences permanent improvement in his Total Motion.

Regarding your order of Alignment Golf, yours was one of the first to come in. I did not recognize the Mauritius country (mail) code and had to google it to find the answer. I was amazed to learn of its location and had fun including it in that post last fall!

:salut:

For a stroke that utilizes standard wrist action, does not the left wrist turn to the inclined plane? And would this not also put the left arm flying wedge and the plane of left wrist cock on the inclined plane?

Thanks
3Putt

Buried Treasure
 

As intuitively obvious as this notion seems, it is not the case. Normally, the Left Arm does not -- and cannot -- lie in the Plane of the orbiting Sweetspot. Yet, the Left Arm Flying Wedge alignments remain intact. See Photo 10-6-B #2.

This exact subject was a hotly debated topic in a prior thread. Mathew posted with his three-dimensional perceptions, and I wrote a very specific post referencing the anatomy of the hand and the 'look' of a properly Cocked Left Wrist (visualize what it looks like with a hammer, and you've got it).

I can't research it now, but trust me, it's in the post-2005 archives. My guess is early 2008 (or possibly late 2007).

:salut:

Yoda is of course genius as always.
10-6-b-2 (10-6-a-2 for that matter) show the left arm lying above the
plane at the top.

Yoda, what is the best way to achieve this feel? In 10-6-b-2 is the Right Arm
EA along the plane, or still below it?