Hitting/Swinging Right Elbow
 

I hope I m staying on track, but I have been thinking about how my right elbow works while keeping a bent right wrist on the downstroke. It seems I have a difficult time keeping the bent right wrist during hitting procedures. I am much more successful using a pitch right elbow 10-3-B and feeling like the right arm is pulling rather than pushing. This is true for me even when practicing basic motion.

I had previously been thinking:

Hitting = Pushing, right side driven
Swinging = Pulling, left side driven

Is it possible to use the label swinger using an active right arm feels as though it is pulling? Possible to involve the right arm pulling in 4 barrel swinging?

Perhaps I am too worried about proper labels? Thank you for any clarification. If I am straying from the proper path please nudge me back on it.

Thanks,
Kevin

Hi Kevin,

you are heading along the lines of a classic debate.... read anything by delawaregolf...Tom Tomasello...right arm pulling... australian TT video etc...

They argue that you can have a left arm/shoulder centred swing with a right arm active pull sensation...although if the right arm were actually doing the pulling...then the right elbow will have replaced the left shoulder as the swing centre...and you are "right arm swinger"....not a unTGM thing (video of HK on youtube admiring right arm swingers) ...but not the classic swinger.

The position of the right elbow is a anatomical alignment consequent of its function...hence if you drive load (to push with non-rotated pp3) it will be in a different position at top...which then leads naturally to punch elbow on DS....and then to angle of approach and then to angled hinge...hitting....same goes for swinging....

Try and work on pulling with the body...through your left arm...load pp4 (also pp3 rotates)....and then work out what position the right elbow/forearm should be in to support the clubshaft (secondary lever ...see 7-3) while you pull....imagine (or actually do it with left arm only ...swing to top/end...get someone to hold the sweetspot tightly....) a really heavy weight being pulled by your pivot, through your left arm...then work out intuitively where the right arm should go...when you load pp4 you will find the right elbow gives best support when it points down more...now - just for the sake of learning - put your right elbow more out - as per hitter or almost flying elbow style - it gives no suppport to the pull...hence it is not a swingers position / alignment....the right elbow pointing down then flows easily to pitch elbow...release swivel...impact...horizontal hinge...swivel back to plane...swinging.

BUT it all stems from understanding loading of the shaft...elbow positions are secondary to that.

see these pics I did last year:
http://www.putfile.com/pic/7151679#
http://www.putfile.com/pic/7144727#

If you pull with your pivot you are a left arm swinger... supposedly less tendon damage than right arm swinger (ie.if you pull solely with your right arm)...but if you pull with your pivot and you FEEL some right arm sensation...thats fine...that is Yoda's interpretation of what DG and TT have been describing all along.

The bit of the book is in 7-3...the key...watch the video..."PP3 where are you"...(i'm sure you have already)...but worth watching again.

Wowza
 

BullDog,

What an AMAZING answer. I am not at all interested in debate, I am here to learn from you guys. I am happy to hear that I'm not the first to wonder about this, now I don't feel quite as silly.

I am off to visit 7-3 and to revisit "PP3 where are you". Thank you VERY much for taking the time to help me, as always!!!

Kevin

WOW Dog,

7-3. There it is. Homer thought of EVERYTHING. Didn't he?

I had not yet read this information, man, I have a long way to go. Thank God for the help here from you and all the others. How in the world did folks like Yoda learn this stuff before the internet?

Thanks again,
Kevin

Yoda's Professor
 

Kevin,

I had a 'helper':

http://lynnblakegolf.com/gallery/sho...ry.php?cat=540

[Click on the thumbnail to enlarge.]


:cool:

:laughing9 :laughing9 :laughing9

Me too!



:golf:

Kev....FWIW....personally, I definitely "feel" my right arm pulling....also when I get to the top of my backswing I need to make sure that my right elbow needs to beat my hands in a "race to the bottom" to impact....for me, this move also keeps my shoulder on plane (down THEN rotate)...

Maintaining that frozen, vertical, bent right wrist is a "big deal" for me...I think it's because my right hand always wants to get over involved in the swing...naturally because my whole life I've done everything right handed...

I've been doing lots of one handed drills & it's helping lots...."feels" are personal & individual & ultimately that's what we're going to be able to reproduce out on the golf course....

Thanks for the reply Allen. Sounds like we have very similar "feels." I picked up an impact bag, and am about to load it up. I'll go back to Alignment Golf to check out Yoda's drills, and I will also follow your advise and do some one arm drills. Should be very doable with the impact bag indoors with basic motion... man, I can't wait for the snow to melt. I have a ton of new stuff to work on!

Thanks and Merry Christmas!

Kevin

Absolutely....lots to work on !!....another idea, in my basement I put a line of masking tape (at ball position)...then doing right hand/arm only swings which improves my pivot...my goal is NOT to hit that piece of tape....hitting the tape would be equivalent to a "fat" shot at the range....for me....I hit the tape WHEN my right wrist loses it's frozen bent condition...after 6 weeks of doing this drill DAILY...guess what?.....I don't hit the tape very often...I also started doing this drill with a weighted club....makes your regular club feel like a toothpick !!......of course also doing Left arm only as well....MAGIC :)

MERRY CHRISTMAS !!

GREAT ideas Allen. Thanks again!!!

Kevin

there is a great subject on this.. on Dana's website.

but basically, pitch elbow.. Once the elbow sticks onto the body during the downswing, the straightening of the elbow will influence the release of the hips . That way, there is no such thing as Over-acceleration of the hip or elbow.

Still its very important to start the swing from ground up. the knees , hip , torso, shoulder then the arm , and pulls the club. this is especially important for swingers.

Right arm swinging... to me its a bad excuse for using the pivot correctly. And there are also a few keys to executing this correctly .

Just some of the great stuffs i learn.. hope it helps you some Kevin.

Thanks for the help Nuke!

I will find it on Dana's forum. Did you see the pics of little Angie, one of his students that he posted this morning? Absolutely amazing little golf swing!!!

Kevin

Yeah.. She is SOOO cute ..

swing better than me too :p

Sticking with the Back Elbow
 

Some great stuff in this thread which I found under the search "pulling left!" Based on my new insights given to me during four days spent with Lynn, as I am beginning to try to apprehend the thousands of subtle insights Lynn produces in an hour :idea1: , I would like to discuss the more or most effective ways to keep the Wedges and Power Package Intact through Impact (videos will be added later).

As I have recently realized, feeling the Pressure Points LAG or become heavy with the weight of the club head is an indicator that a golfer is On Plane and can move the Sweet Spot On Plane through Impact to Finish. That is our goal except for some Specialty Shots. :golf:

So, for these maximum results, the LAG of the pet dog or the mop must be felt and maintained through the Swing or Hit. Simple right? :laughing9

I was blown away by Lynn in numerous ways but maintaining the Plane through out the Swing or Hit was front and center as was the resulting Power and Precision. :salut:

The MacDonald March and Exercises set us and our Power Package On Plane and can effectively help us transport the Sweet Spot to Finish. But are there other thoughts or Components of a Swing that might be as effective in maintaining the LAG in the Down Swing? :read:

There might be a few thousand! :laughing1

Let us agree for the sake of friendly discussion that Sustaining the LAG is aided greatly by keeping the Back Elbow or Trail Elbow Stuck to our side in The Down Swing. ( We are not speaking of Hitting here. I'm not qualified to do so and all my comments are really just speculation and personal experience. My comments are descriptive not proscriptive.) :think:

Daryl has suggested that keeping the Left Wrist/Hand facing the sky during the Down Swing is effective. I have tried it and it seems to keep the Back Elbow glued to the side and helps Sustain the Lag. I think Lynn shows this "Bullet Proof Vest" in his "Driving" video, though he is Hitting there. Cool!

I have a problem though in doing that. When I Elevate my Lead hand, my right elbow functions like a baseball swing. Sometimes I snobberknock the ball and it is way cool. Sometimes I slice or hook the ball into the neighboring cow pasture, lake Michigan, Lake Ontario, or Lake Minnetonka (nod to the Minnesota and other Fellowship of the TGM memebers). Not Cool!

I was showing a friend Basic and Acquired Motion the other day and thinking about Lynn and Balance and "quiet knees and quiet feet," and I decided to turn my chest sharply left once I felt the LAG. I felt Pressure Point # 4 and a good Back Elbow at my rib cage like never before! I hit several pro-trajectory 5 woods almost 220 with range balls. I brought the rain! Wow! :) However, sometimes I hit sceamers, left or right.

Ideas?

IC T

The amount you learned and retained in thaty four days never ceases to amaze me. Thank you for giving so much back!!! :salut: :salut: :salut:

Kevin

I recognize some of it, but I hadn't any TGM references to what I was doing because of my inability to understand the book, but I'm reading your version with great interest and I'm trying to understand more and more. :scratch:

Videos my boy
 

Air, I have watched Lynn's tapes so often that I visualize the book as I read it. :laughing9

First it's video, then search the Forums, looking for images I can follow, then a part in the book or pm's to friends who explain it in their own ways.

If your Back Elbow is at your side you will feel the Lag and you are On Plane and then you must transport the club On Plane to move the ball effectively via a Swing or Hit. But correct mechanics introduce new feelings and thoughts so we need to talk and research this.

Ask questions!

IC T

Good idea. :salut:

down elbow
 

So when I Pivot back from Adjusted Address, And I'm careful to Trace, and feel myback elbow pointing down and well away from my side, and square the face, I Slide the Front. Hip, the Back Elbow drops smoothly Down. It almost feels like I have greese on my elbow, and then I push the swing, or Paddlewheel.
If I trust the slide and feel the Elbow ride the Plane Down, I can thrust PP #1 hard and man, that Angle Hinge really elevates the ball!

IC T