Hogan question
 

In reading 5 Lessons I was wondering if anyone could explain something. Hogan said that any use of the hands to square the club is pure folly and a timing nightmare essentially . But then he says that you need to supinate your hands/wrists just prior to impact.

Dont you need to time the supination so your wrist so it is bowed/flat at impact? Especially in his case where he had a cup in his left wrist at the top?

Would you guys say Hogan was TGM?

Thanks

He may have heard of it in his later days....when he was retired....(whenever TGM came out)....I know nothing about it tho.

You dont have to time it really......it's just Educated Hands.

Thanks Birdie_man...I will put all books aside once Im in possession of the 7th edition.

No prob.

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One more thing is that a slight Arch at Impact (in some cases)....(+ other things) gave Hogan more left-to-right ensurance.

It's a lot to do with that....sustaining Lag Pressure.....Educated Hands.....tweaking ballflight....always to the right to some degree.

Bend the left wrist and the face closes.

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He wanted the ball to fade most of the time.

Hogan
 

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What Mr. Hogan probably meant was that trying to square the club with a THROWAWAY type of hand action would be a "nightmare."

I believe Mr. Kelley used some of the pictures of Mr. Hogan to form his ideas about G.O.L.F.. The FLAT LEFT WRIST at Impact, for example.

In TGM... Mr.Hogan was using... A Lagging Clubhead Takeaway, Random Power Package Loading ,Delayed Hip Action, and said he had a "cupped wrist"(Double Wrist Action) at the Top or End. Some pictures show this, and in some it is not as obvious(with the wrist).

Maybe some others can chime in and do the DOWNSWING.

Lagster,

Hogans waggle seems real similar to Tommy Tomasello's pre-set wrist movement in the video here. Hogans cupped wrist as Birdie_man mentioned was probably another measure to encourage a fade.

Didnt Gary Player come out recently saying most players would have more power and get greater distance w/ a cupped left wrist?

Ive been using that Couples type swing w/ a cupped wrist, and while l I do get a lot of power and distance, the accuracy isnt as good as when I keep a flat left wrist through out the swing. Also hit mid to short irons kind of fat.

I guess youre just adding one more variable when you go from a cupped to a flat or bowed wrist at impact.

Left Wrist
 

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The "cupped left wrist" in TGM is called Double Wrist Action. With this the left wrist is cocked and bent. Some players do very well with this. The wrist is Turned, Cocked, and Bent on the Backstroke. When used properly with what the book calls a "true Centrifugal Force Swing", it can actually inhibit clubhead throwaway, because of the reverse rotation during Release. Here the left wrist moves to Flat and Vertical.

Actually, when done properly, a FLAT LEFT WRIST is visually very slightly BENT, DEPENDING ON YOUR GRIP, AND THE CLUBFACE APEARS SQUARE AT THE TOP. With the Double Action("cupped"), THE CLUBFACE WILL APPEAR A LITTLE OPEN AT THE TOP.
WITH ARCHED, THE FACE WILL USUALLY APPEAR SHUT AT THE TOP(clubface to sky).

The FLAT LEFT WRIST, SQUARE CLUBFACE AT THE TOP, VERSION... is usually the procedure that is recommended for most people. However, if you are getting good results with the Double Action version, this is fine.

I didn't says that! Blasphemy!!! ;)

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Really tho....I've only seen one picture where Hogan's wrists were obviously double-Cocked.

....haven't seen any of his vids or read any books....but all the pics on the net I've seen are Flat....only saw one bent- cover of LIFE magazine.

Wasn't his wrist Flat when he played?

More or less.

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First of all, everyone should read Ted's thread: "Is the world flat??"

...to distinguish between Flat, maintaining Flying Wedges, the effects of different grip types on the appearance of the left wrist....etc.

Well...I guess that video shows a Bend....we can't see Hogan on the screen too well...but Gary draws the lines, etc. that indicate a Bent left wrist.

For one though....when Player demonstrates what Hogan's doing....he doesn't look double-Cocked.....left wrist looks Bent....but looks more like he took a Turned grip....i.e. Flying Wedges still intact.

(read "Is the world flat???")

And if THAT'S what he's advocating....well then ok (doesn't have to be a Turned grip tho).

Question:

Possible at all that Hogan could've EVER played a grip that was slightly Turned.....and could've produced a Bent left wrist at the top....but while keeping his Wedges intact?

Did he ever go to a draw as his normal flight? (maybe going for more distance when he was older?)

I just really don't know about this double-Cocked crap....

Thanks Hue for posting that clip of Player's analysis of Tiger's driver swing...what Gary is suggesting is that Tiger bring the club in his backswing simultaneously up and in which could be done with the right forearm pickup...what does the cupped left wrist do for bringing the elbow and right arm in closer to his body at impact like Hogan...as Player suggests?

I don't think it does anything...

I think posture has something to do with it.....possibly Hinge Action.....

And Player stopped the videos at two different places too.

Bent vs. Double
 

Double Wrist Action is NOT the COCKING OF BOTH WRISTS! IT IS HAVING A COCK AND BEND IN THE LEFT WRIST. SWINGERS SIMETIMES DO THIS VERY WELL. WHEN THE LEFT WRIST BEMOMES FLAT AT IMPACT... IT IS OK. I believe you'll see that Charles Howell also does this.

Now as far as Hogan... I have seen pictures where his left looked FLAT at the Top, and some pictures where it looked Slightly Bent. They were all FLAT at IMPACT.

Tiger Analysis... It would be interesting to see if the "cupped" players tend to do what Gary Player says in his analysis. I doubt if it has an effect on Delivery Path... but it may. Some guys I can think of "cupped"... Howell, Price, Hogan, Player. Like some have said... this somewhat depends on one's grip.

Thanks for the input guys. I'll check out "the world is flat" thread. Horsed around at the range this morning with some of Tommy's concepts and liked the results. Seems easier on this 43 yr olds back....

I didn't say anything about Double Wrist Action....thanks tho, didn't rellay know that's what that was anyway.

Now- it's basically a product of the Grip Type, right? Turned left wrist leads to Double Wrist Action?

If that's what Hogan's doing then it's no big deal....I'm only sketchy about it when ppl start thinking it's Double Cocked.

I think something very special happens for these players to go from slightly Bent at the Top to Flat at Impact. It just shows how awesome their swings are. (They do not try to manipulate it with their Wrist from Bent to Flat).