Great question HB.

Couple of thoughts :

In Homers single plane downswing he presented what he termed the "high elbow plane" . An elbow plane that lined up with a Turned Shoulder Plane allowing for on plane Right Shoulder support to the on plane Power Package in Startdown and an On Plane Right Forearm Flying Wedge through the ball. Not very common in the field I know.


Some time ago on this forum Yoda pointed out that the Aiming Point is represented in the photos of 10-19 through to 10-23 by a dark shadowy like arrow. An arrow perhaps made of black card or tape by Homer and placed flat to the plane in the photos . Its a straight line cutting vertically across the face of the plane of the plane board that whats her name is standing in. What the heck was her name again? She's still alive eh! Living in Hawaii.

Anywho if you flip along through the pics the arrow can be seen more in some photos than others but I believe this is due more to Homers exposure than his intentions. I even see it , if faintly, in Circle Path 10-23-E #2. Now go to the photos accompanying 10-23-A , Straight Line Hand Path (associated with zero shift IMO) and 10-23- D Angled hand path (associated with a shift down to the (true) Elbow Plane). Notice how the arrow which is clearly visible in these photos has been moved!! Moved from Top in A , to a position at the top of the straight line path on the Elbow Plane in B. There being a "vertical drop" of the hands in B which would be better seen from a down the line perspective but is shown as a angled line in that photo from caddy view.

So, Im thinking the thrust of the Aiming Point Procedure commences once you have reached the top of the impact plane angle. Makes sense to me you wouldn't want to thrust at the aiming point and drop vertically at the same time. Plane shifters have to wait a little longer!

My apologies for not answering your question more directly .

Once again, from pg 83, in the context of compensation for different length clubs:

--2. move the Ball forward or aft of the established Aiming Point...

which would make no sense were the Aiming Point not on the Plane Line. The ball is never moved fore or aft on a delivery line. :nono:

And yet again, pg 83:

"At the top of the Backstroke--even at the End(10-21-C)--mentally construct a line from the #3 Pressure Point to the Aiming Point."

which precludes any waiting and preempts the use of the Aiming Point concept in any DS with a plane shift which requires a vertical hand drop at a point off the Plane Line. Use of a plane shift on the DS takes the player close, but not entirely into the dark shadows of Pivot Controlled Hands.

Hey MJ.

By "Plane Line" I was referring to Low Point Plane Line , the Base of the Plane . As distinct form the IMpact Plane Line. The ball played at low point will sit on the Base Line Plane Line aka the Low Point Plane Line and the Impact Plane Line . But as the ball is moved back in the stance ... BACK , UP the plane and IN (3 dimensional ) along the on plane , circular club head orbit aka the delivery line of the club head, the distance between the Impact Plane Line and the Low Point Plane Line increase, widen . The ball played back in the stance sits on the Impact Plane Line but not the Low Point Plane Line or "plane line" in common speak.

Ah geometry in words, it sucks ...

You have to move the ball back along the delivery line of the club head assuming you want the club head to meet up with the ball.

Heres a diagram. Disregard the arrow , that curve from impact to low point along the circular club head orbit is the Delivery Line (and the Arc of Attack).

Re the sections Ive highlighted above in bold type:

Thats Homer for you ... up to his old tricks with words. But "mentally constructing" is not one and the same as actually Thrusting from End . See photo 10-23-C and read the accompanying text. The hands retrace the Top Arc from End to the Top of the straight line delivery path .... a place from which the #3 is then thrusted straight line towards the aiming point . See the dark shadowy arrow Homer mounted to the face of the plane and how it aligns to the straight line delivery path not to where the hands are at End.

Per 12-3. "Aiming Point -Lag" is not mentioned until Downstroke Section 8 (the period of hand/ arm acceleration). No mention of it Section 7 Startdown (the period of right Shoulder Acceleration). Could it be implied in Section 6 Top , Delivery Line Prep? Maybe. Making the "mentally constructing" a form of prep from Top perhaps. Yoda'd know for sure.

Re the latter bit Ive bolded. See 10-23-B where Homer describes the Angled Line associated with a shift back to the elbow plane. See the photo that goes along with it ....it includes the shadowy black arrow representing the Aiming Point. Its faint but its there. Homer obviously thought you could use the Aiming Point Procedure with a Plane Shift.

Further down in the very same paragraph from page 83 which you quoted , Homer describes employing the Aiming Point Procedure even when using Circle Path.


All analogies come up short but if I may . Imagine a bicycle sitting upside down with its tires in the air , friction free for spinning. To spin the wheel you could place your hand on a spoke at say 1 o'clock and thrust straight line towards 6 o'clock on the dial thereby spinning the wheel. If your hand were to stay attached to the spoke it would not travel the same straight line. In golf it could travel a straightish line though I would venture. There being no spoke to mechanically ensure a circular hand path.

I dunno. Im just a dumb golfer trying to figure out how Yoda hits the ball so nicely for a 600 year old guy. He loves the Aiming Point Procedure , that I know for sure. When I first saw him hitting balls in person I was immediately struck by his Down. I couldn't really see it but I sensed it . Blammo. Aiming Point sure helps in that endeavour.

Pch?
 

Where does HK relate a DS plane shift to "Pivot Controlled Hands"?

hb

No Shift Plane.
 

I looked at a "bunch" of plane board swings on Youtube and without exception they were problematic. No shoulder tilt, high right shoulder pivot, arms swings, no rhythm all this required to keep the shaft on the plane board. Got any good examples of a NO Shift swing that is true No shift?

HB

Q1...Aiming Point is the direction of Lag/Thrust...not the butt cap....that's where you get your junk jacked up and get your hands way away from you and the clubhead laying down...this inhibits the club switching ends and encountering the pulley...absolutely you can use the concept with any shot...it's up to you and your inherent release feel required to get the club to throw out/drive out on plane...

Q2...yes dingdong you answered your question in your prior post...arc and angle of approach ARE VISUAL EQUIVALENTS..

Q3 yes...you put the aiming point where it helps you ... so if your are an over the top biscuit flipper...you may put the aiming point well in front of the ball out to the right...if you are a underplane goat humping laying your shaft down dingdong...you may put it inside the line...whatever works...so if the aiming point is in front of the ball on the arc of aproach ...would it not be inside the plane line?

KEY TO THIS .... Homer SAID....he can't tell you where YOUR aiming point will be....EXPERIMENT!!!

I would note that in the text:

"At the top of the Backstroke – even at End (10-21-C) – mental construct a line form the #3 Pressure Point to the Aiming Point."

he specifically says "top", not "Top", which makes me think the mental straight line construction AND the thrust is at the top, even if it's the End, and not the Top. After all, you hardly have time to mentally construct anything once the DS is under way. Also, thrusting from the End would deflect the straight line effort to start from the Top automatically.

HOWEVER, you are absolutely right about plane shifts and the Aiming Point, because of the text on pg 202, in 10-23-B. Angled Line:

"From the Top-of-the-Straight-Line hand position the Hands take a nearly vertical path to the Plane of the Elbow Angle before they start their drive directly at and through the Aiming Point (2-J-3)."

I can't explain this apparent contradiction. :confused:

Disagree....an object can be forward or aft of something and not be on the same line....