Mixed Signals
 

Actually, Whip, your post didn't say anything about the hip turn. It merely referenced a "statement", presumably from a prior Par71 post, but gave no clue as to what that statement was.

I took your reference to mean the text he quoted in his post #7 (the most recent) whereas I now see that you were talking about post #1. At least the mistake gave me the opportunity to add other insights!

Now seems like a good time to remind everybody that the Quote function is a valuable tool. It keeps everybody on the same page and prevents this kind of confusion.

P.S. Get well soon, Whip . . . but keep up those posting stats!

Any insight On this?

With Delayed Hip Action, "Hip Action is delayed until Start Down". So the Action of the Hips cannot be responsible for preventing overswinging on the backstroke. I think Homer is referring to the first sentence of 10-15-B where he explains that the Shoulders lead and power (or at least lead) the Backstroke Hip Turn. In other words, a Backstroke Hip Turn that is lead by the Shoulders (rather than the other way round) prevents overswinging.

He wrote "Hip Turn" in that sentence you quoted in every edition from the first to the seventh. So I assume it's intentional.

You and me both Whip. I was always foggy on "Delayed Hip Action." YODA's post helped tremendously. I love learning this stuff! :salut:

Kevin

Beautiful explanation from Mr. Cox and 6PieceBucket!

Kevin

Only 6 cause I be on another diet... :crybaby:

Originally Posted by Par71
I understand that Delayed Hip Action with preturned Hips will assure Clearing of the Right Hip. But preturning the Hips is not mandatory for Delayed Hip Action, is it? Homer says "Turn the Hips a predetermined amount - or none at all - and then semi-lock them at that point before starting back with either the Shoulders or the Club." (Bold by me.)

I took the quote in my first post above to mean that Delayed Hip Action even without preturned Hips would assure Clearing of the Right Hip, whereas Standard Hip Action would not. Maybe that was not intended.




I do not think putting would be applicable to a delayed hip action because the hips power the downstroke shoulder turn with this variation, I think you would use zero hip action with zero hip turn for putting...

No Goose . . . No Egg
 

Wow. See how confusing this is?

I used a ten-foot putt to make the most obvious example I could think of.

You can't have a Hip Action if there is no Hip Turn.

That was exactly my point!

:eyes:

When you related putting to delayed hip action, that is what was confusing. Otherwise I would not have posted.

More On Hip Turn Versus Hip Action
 

If you'll read my post carefully, you'll see that I wrote "Hip Turn" not Hip Action (Delayed or otherwise).

:)

And, a Hip Turn that moves "none at all" -- the point that was under discussion and which I took to the extreme in my putting example (no Hip Turn in either direction) -- is classified as a Zero Hip Turn (10-14-E). This Component Variation automatically produces a Zero Hip Action (10-15-D) -- not Standard, Delayed, or Short. It also tends to automatically produce Zero Knee Action (10-16-E) and Zero Foot Action (10-17-E). All this constrains the Shoulder Turn but does not initiate it (in either direction). Hence, no work, and by definition, no Action.

That said, let's take the subject a bit further. It is possible for the Hips to Turn in the Stroke, yet do no work. This situation would also be classified as Zero Hip Action, even though there was a Hip Turn.

In this instance, the Hips are providing motion only, and that motion may resemble the Standard Action (free Turn with Hips leading in both directions). However, they are not pulling the shoulders in either direction, a fact usually evidenced by a "perceptible slackness in the Hip and Shoulder relationship".

:salut:

Right Lynn, zero hip turn automatically produces zero hip action, "the or none at all" is straight out of 10-15-b delayed hip action, which would be incompatible if you are using no hip turn e.g. A ten foot putt

So the "or none at all" that is in the description of 10-15-b DELAYED HIP ACTION could not have been referring to those strokes where no hip turn is necessary because zero hip turn and delayed hip action are incompatible components.