Watch Strawberry and Couples . . . . very SIMILAR motions . . . Note how Straw shoots the bat "across the line" . . . that bat head is MOVING as he strides (for us startdown) . . . Mr. Batspeed dude was saying that the cats that bomb home runs have the most "angular displacement" in the bat EARLY in their swing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=657y3THYbBo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQHporpaZnc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sskWanNH6WU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UFMF7AzmqY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6I3EY7urj8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=onV3d2kbLSE

How my move feels
 

I move my power package down to the point from which I feel the most lag on PP3 thru to both arms straight. It feels like I am actively moving my right hand staight down keeping my wrist bend in the right hand constant. It really maximizes the feel of the club against PP3.

The impact bag takes a beating every day practicing first the maximum PP3 move to both arms straight and the practicing the lowering of the power package to that point and spanking the impact bag.

I love tha maximum lag feeling.

I see sit down again and a planting of the left heel. OH supposed to be looking at arms and hands !! Ok !! I see there is a high right elbow which has to get down, therefore the forearm rotation and of course the adduction. Of course that bat is note on plane at the top. So Bucket do you think we should take the golf club to the top like baseball players. Perhaps that is why they have the hand motion to get the d@#$% thing on plane. I have mentioned Brandon Inge the Detroit Tiger 3rd baseman who has been known to hit a home run or two. I have watched him hit the ball 380 yards at my course So there is much to learn from good long baseball hitters like him. So Bucket thanks to you when I go down to Fla in two weeks to start my golf season I think I may take in a game. I will be in Naples and of course the Red Sox are there. Does anyone know if they are any good? Will it be worth the price of a ticket. Do you think I can come beans with my hot dog!

More Displaced than I used to be! : >
 

OK, earlier, sharper displacement. Check. So how does a Hitter/Switter do this? LIke Arnie or Hogan?!! Like TED, and like Lynn? Glide and Displace like a mothuh! Ohhhh, a new swing keY ! Glide an displace...Aim the bomb and Drop it! Straighten (right leg) and Displace ala BEN!

I have hit some great shots with what I thought was very heavy EA. It was LAG formed by heavy EA and a sharp displacement of the hands, i.e., the EA was so heavy with my right arm that my Displacement was almost automatic with my hula movement.

That poor little ball is gonna really get it this time!!!! :golfcart:

ICT

Freddie's Way
 

This has got to make some of the "keep the hanky under the armpit" crowd very nervous.

:laughing9

Interesting huh? Freddie seems to be kinda like Darryl Strawberry . . . Strawberry's bat was "across the line" . . . BOMBED IT.

Beans on a dog???

LOADING . . .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMlRNJxQ0dY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZBczCac-rE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TC-RIO2UgLo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mj11syXgyb0

Send in the Clowns!
 

"Just think of everything you should do in golf, and do the opposite!" OMGosh!
Wouldn' t it just freak the people in gallery out if they understood how "freewheeling" the golf stroke is? Do you think they'd stand so close?

The left arm is indeed a check -rein for the right arm, ALL THE WAY TO/Through FINISH! The smybiosis of the EA and RFT is like bark and orchid, like nitrogen fixation in our biospere :confused1 , hell, it's like Freddy Couples RFT to the top before he breaks the ball with his Displaced Alignment!

Moe Norman didn't need a full backswing, just full Displaced Alignment and a real steady set-up!

WOW! May I just say, WOW?!!!!


ICT

Sheesh! I just realized how little I really understand about "single" or "double" wrist actions and how crucial they probably are!

And isn't every golfer either a less or more effective 4 barrel Switter? A par-shooting golfer might not understand the components or what to call his "gift," but they sure Swing and Hit though they may conceptualize something else!

Once Mr. Hoqan or Moe Norman or any pro gets on Plane and Displaces the top and bottom hands, that right or bottom hand is being driven/pushed/thrust DOWN, OUT and FORWARD as hard as the Right Arm can piston!

No wonder the pros hate 50 yard shots! I love them because I suck and I basically block the ball right to the hole.

Screw that! From now on, I'm hitting my LOB wedge 150 yards past the pin BECAUSE I CAN! BESIDES, IT IS THE MOST FITTING WAY TO FINISH OFF A 350 YARD DRIVE!!!!!!!


: >



ICT

Careful dude . . . . 4 barrel type hitters LOAD very much like swingers . . . linear vs. angular is gonna turn up later in the motion . . . Here go the KING exhibiting similar loading in the day when he was the most sexyiest. Palmer's right elbow is bent more at top and ROLLED which shoots the club slightly across the line ala Couples so you'll see that karate chop look happen at a different time due to the range of motion his right forearm has to make . . . but it happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk66F...eature=related

Trophy Time
 

Performance Golf has its U. S. Amateur Championship.

Lynn Blake Golf has Bucket.

Its Champions are equivalent.

:salut:

Golly Bucket great stuff. Hey if you put the club vertical at the top you can really get a lot of that baseball stuff working for you. I think I am going to wait to see Yoda on a video holding the golf club like Sosa at the top before I commit to all this. Ok I see a little of that in the golf swings. Bucket, even as a retired guy I hardly have the time to look at the videos, how in the world do you have the time to find all that stuff - is business bad!!. Does your boss know you are doing this.
Thanks a lot. I think I will send you a big check in appreciation.

4 hours of sleep . . .

Let's give someone else the "business."
 

Perhaps POTUS might retire early to study TGM and become a much happier human being. :eusa pray:

ICT

Here's Sergio doing his Zoro move at Top. A wag under the plane which he corrects. I see this wag in a lot of guys who drop to a lower Plane..... Do the base ball batters give us any insight into the this move? Is it a power move? Does it only feel like a power move in that the off plane meanderings do add lag pressure as you force things back in line? Is it merely an early premature planing of the club to the Elbow Plane? Getting his gloves logo pointing to the sky early, via rotation. Is it just his Right Elbow tucking Pitch early. Would you correct this move if you were Sergio's instructor or let it go.............he seems to get it all sorted out by Release.

As a side note this wag when seen from caddy view will appear to be additional left wrist cock...... another illusion. As will the Plane Shift.....

Have a look at this . . . for him he calls it "pre-launch torque" . . . maybe we can call it loading the right arm . . . lowering club by rotation of the right forearm that lowers the club down . . . but the #1 accumulator isn't firing at this point. Look at your sergio sequence . . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s8mJXDGl5pU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YBuyUImIbw

CF release with driveloading added.

Teddy Ballgame



Tony Gwynn



Charlie Hustle


Using the rotation of the right forearm to lower the club on plane while not extending the right elbow #1 . . .

Sergio . . . . . .



Do you have this whole sequence? It looks like the shaft is actually wanting to steepen out from frame 3 to frame 4 . . .

More forearm loading . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xbC31AQqSg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCUQM50zZ9I

First I hope you notice the sit down, centering, stable head and using ground forces in these shots. I still see this is more arm adduction than forearm rotation. Also in Sergio, does he lay off the club at the beginning of start down? ie lose his wrist cup or arch his wrist in addition to everything else he does. More importantly as cool as this is in the baseball swing is this desirable in the golf swing. I don't think so. Shouldn't we keep it simple and on plane. Isn't the shortest point between two lines a straight line. If the club lays on plane at impact and if it is off plane at the top doesn't this require compensations. Should we get rid of the lasers pointing thingys and go to the baseball model. Bucket are you helping or corrupting us?

Oh sure Doc! I know there is WHOLE LOT MORE going on than just this forearm deal . . . It's a WHOLE BODY move . . .

AND I think there's probably a whole lot more that goes into being on plane than just "laser pointing" . . . I think there are some dynamics involved with the forces and speed involved in the golf swing . . .

Yah, my thoughts too. Homer wouldnt change Sergio or Furyk I dont think, not at this point. He believed planar was the simple way to go but the not so simple procedures if repeatable were just as effective mechanically. The "if repeatable" part is the big question. You wouldnt want to teach Furyks swing for instance. You wouldnt build that complicated a machine given simpler options.

That said Im interested in the idea there may be an advantage to the Sergio , Zoro torque move.

That'd make for a mechanical advantage to plane shifting. If so Im in........but to be honest at this point I think, for the golfer anyways, it may feel powerful in that the #3pp is loading a little harder maybe but its not really adding power and is geometrically challenged........ but please .....change my mind. Thats why Im here.

It is weird how the baseball players change planes by about 90 degrees.....way more than a golfer. They dont have to roll a number 3 angle either at impact , the bat has no hooked face. Its a similar motion , interestingly , confusingly ......but not the same deal, exactly.

I dunno. I did play in front of Blue Jays once who were freakin long, crazy long.

I grabbed those from a video above in this post.

Yes agreed he gets flat then gets it aligned better , perhaps when his pivot supplies some CF.

He's got some hand manipulation going on in Startup and in Startdown. Not as simple as Hogan but he is the modern manifestation of the Golfers Flail. I think he loves the feeling of the flail and thats what drives his look in startdown. Its flail prep as he rotates his wrist watch skyward in preparation to go the other way. His Right Elbow tucks Pitch too . I dunno.

Maybe the opposite side of the same coin.

The Batters hands travel on a horizontal Plane while the end of the Bat lowers into alignment. Less inertia to overcome until the Pivot is fully underway. Sergio seems to leave the Clubhead at the Top while Lowing his hands to the Plane. Less inertia to overcome until the Pivot is fully underway. At the Top, Frame 1 and 2, Sergio "Swivels" during the Initial Start-down to Align the Flying Wedges for Horizontal Hinging. Notice that his Hands - #3 PP, at the Top, are Aligned against the Primary Lever while his Right Elbow is "Pitched" and already Aligned to receive Loading from the Clubshaft (Secondary Lever). The Batter has his Right Elbow in a "Punch" Alignment which moves into a Pitch Alignment during the Downstroke to Align for Horizontal Hinging.

Flip Release. Sergio has a great, great swing.

Physics/Dynamics seem to be throwing the club on plane to me . . . . beautiful stuff here . . . what is your assessment of this elbow position?


Not sure about Horizontal Hinging . . . .

Sergeo doesn't flip.

I am just waiting for those hockey slap shot video's Every see a hockey game bucket

I CAN DO HOCKEY!!!!

THE BACKSTROKE PIVOT/TRANSITION IS LIKE A HOCKEY STOP!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br8dfnnWL5k


ALSO HERE IS YOU SOME PUSH PULL TORQUE AROUND THE CORNER . . WITH A LITTLE SLAPSHOT LAG . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v1HUU...eature=related

HERE'S YOU SOME 2-J-3 ARC OF APPROACH DELIVERY PATH HANDLE AROUND THE CORNER STICKHEAD THROW OUT. . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3bOpn...eature=related

I think Daryl is referring to the flip release, not flipping of the hands.

I tend to agree.

Perfect


He came into it Aligned with a Horizontal Hinge. I don't know what happened. Grip? Flashing Hands? He does have a cocked right wrist, so he may steer a little but I think that he's too good for that. Maybe his right hand grip is a little weak?

There is a paper out there by Sasho Mackenzie that discusses the torques on the swing and one of his papers talks about if the clubhead drops below the plane at start down it becomes easier to square the club face. I don't have the link handy but I am sure 12 piece has read it. When I see Sergio's move it seems very much in line with the physics Sasho has demonstrated in the paper.

http://people.stfx.ca/smackenz/publications.html


HB

A whole lot more
 

Just wanted to say thanks for the fine observations and insights in this thread. Tonight in the simulator, I learned a ton while increasing my driving average from 175 to 205. Displacing the bottom and top hands in my best Freddy Couples imitation allowed me to Hit lots of slight pushes and fades.

I did something right, toward the end of the night and uncorked a 225 yard drive while Hitting. I think that was a drive I totally trusted and strove into. I realized that I had been turning my left wrist 1/2 way between a full Startup-Swivel and a FLW. As soon as I kept my FLW with a RFT and Angle Hinge, the ball started to leap but I must've been running out of right arm since I was hooking the ball.

MY alignments are all messed up. My wrists are also sore. I could feel a lot more power available through the Displacements but I realized I just did not have the skill to let the power flow through the stroke.

More study is the answer.

ICT

So what's the difference between flipping the hands and a flip release? I've always associated the two.

Anyway, I took a look at a few other slo mo videos of Sergeo. I can now understand why you regard it as a flip release. There's a sense of an independant club motion in there. A rotation component that isn't fully backed up by the arms swing. Sign of a chicken wing through impact, almost if he is tempoary shortening his left arm to take up the slack from a flip. I didn't expext to see that. I didn't see it on the first video I examined either.

It looks flippy face on (6 o'clock). And also from slightly behind ( 7.30). But from 4.30 it doesn't look like a flip.

Too me serge releases right wrist bend late like couples. They do it in a way that causes the face to layback and not roll. You can find pics of hogan like that too.

Hockey , theres another sport that relates to golf but unlike baseball its "club" has a hooked face making its motion a "hinge action of a circular/angular motion on an inclined plane" as well. What does that mean?...........Check out the horizontal hinging on those guys. But they can display Vertical too when trying to roof a shot, "top cheese". Or a knock down when they de loft add shaft lean and snap a little Angled Hinge for a long hard cross ice pass that requires accuracy.

Hinge Action is not unique to golf, its not something Homer invented .....he wasnt even the first to identify it I dont think. He just cracked its underlying geometry and defined it. No small feat.

My apologies for the digression. I guess baseball is a "angular motion on an inclined plane"....no hinge action, no #3 roll at all, just what we'd call #2 accumulator but with all the linear , radial , pulley wheel stuff going on. Interestingly in hockey you try to hit the ice before the puck and bend the heck out of the shaft then flick the wrists.

I think that you make a very good point. The Flip may create some slack and the Left Arm manipulation that you're observing may be an affect while trying to "Time" Impact.

I may have spoken prematurely about Sergio, but whenever I see an out of Line Primary Lever at Start Down, I immediately think and look for a Flip Release.

Anytime the Shaft and Clubhead are Radially out of line with the Left Arm and Left Wrist, a slight pull with the Left Arm will cause the Clubhead to get in-line. Thus, when we, at Start-Down, try to leave the Hands at the Top, we are Aligning the Left Arm and Clubshaft while taking out the Slack.

Sergio allows the Clubhead to Drop Slightly below the Hands at Startdown and then, when ready, he pulls the Hands strongly downward. Typically, the force is strong enough so that rather than the Clubhead simply "getting in-line", it creates CF and causes the Club to Release. "Flip Release"

The Clubhead races to the outside. This is "Timed" to get aligned by/at Impact.

Hockey is my favorite sport to watch.

Excuse me??? No #3 Accumulator Roll? Batters have the most powerful #3 Accumulator Roll of all. The Right Forearm Rotates about an Axis perpendicular to the Horizontal Plane as does the #3 PP. If you attach a Paddle to the Side of their Right Forearm, notice that the Paddle would remain perpendicular to the Horizontal Plane throughout the Release and Impact Interval. And they have an Awesome finish Swivel as well. Look at the video clip Bucket Posted of the Batter with the number 9 on his jersey.

Perfect Horizontal Hinge and Finish Swivel.


Let me show you what I mean... Get a Club and get into Impact exactly as the Photo below. Left Palm Down and Right Palm up with arms and Club just below your shoulders, torso turned and arms way out in front. Lower the Power Package to the Inclined Plane by Moving your Right Elbow downward and backward toward your Right Hip. Notice that the Back of your Left Wrist and Right Forearm and #3 PP point Down the Angle of Approach.

Reverse the procedure and move your Power Package from your Golf Impact Fix to a Baseball Batters Impact by moving your Right Elbow up along the Alignment of your Right Forearm. How good does that look if you were a Baseball Batter? Hmm? :laughing9

Rock your Power Package Back and forth between the Batter and Golfer and make adjustments until both Impacts have the same Power Package Alignments and the Only difference between the Two Alignments is the "Right Elbow Location".

I see what you mean .......I do see something that looks like our Finish Swivel there. Love the swing on that old timer. Is that Ted Williams.....?

Im thinking there's still overtaking and rolling after impact but Rose and others seem to execute impact without any prior roll off the plane, Release Swivel in our terms. Their left hand is still palm down to their plane at impact. Like they were hitting the ball with the bottom of the golf shaft , (fore , aft, top , bottom). He's knuckles up, watch face pointing at the sky , if that was a golf club in his hands the face would pointing up at the sky too .........wouldnt it?

Take the 1-L Machine and cut the clubhead off the Lever. No hooked clubface , no Hinge Action, no angled plane often. Oh yeah thatd make it "an angular motion on a plane" , no hinge action , no angled plane......I think.

Jamie Sadlowski

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHcbU...eature=related

10-2-D ???

The Bear