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We miss you
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G2M |
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Where am I?...A Deserted Island...Let's go people...open your eyes and your mind it's time to start learning to LOOK...LOOK...LOOK...
At one time in your life TGM was difficult to understand ONLY because of its language...Same here...This language I'm using IS "universal" in Academia... |
[quote=annikan skywalker]Lagster....Now I'm smellin what you're steppin in!
You are absolutely correct here....Many golfers and golf professionals confuse the "Inclination of the Torso" as ...."THE SPINE ANGLE"...Huge mistake..HUGE!!!....I'd agree that while there should be no bobbing or swaying the "Inclination of the Torso" stays relatively stable for a relatively straight shot... This is the "Inclination of the Torso"  It's not a matter of semantics...because the spine is not located where these markers and these planes intersect... Very Important...Notice Above...the Neck(Cervical Spine) is moderately flexed forward ..... Contrary look below...  Is the Neck still flexed forward or is it really beginning to lateral bend to the right? How about the upper torso?...LOOK....LOOK...LOOK!!! Is Sam still in his waist bend or was the axis of rotation replaced by another axis of rotation and his torso is now rotating, extending and lateral bending? BTW ...Yes the "Inclination of the Torso" is somewhat sustained... BUT there are some serious changes going on....STUDY THE SEGMENT ANGLES!! ................... Looks like the axis of rotation has changed and is now moving with a combination of counter-clockwise rotation, slight lateral bending and extension !!! How can this be possible?????? Yes hip slide changes the Axis Tilt in one plane but how about the other 2 planes?.... How does it affect the 4 segments of the spine? Wouldn't the FLAT Shoulder Turn versus the Rotated Shoulder Turn have different affects on the 4 segments of the spine? |
This might help us all..learn 6 very simple movements in 3 different planes...
 Let's go from easiest to most difficult... #1 Let's visualize ourselves as "revolving doors" that can rotate: A. Clockwise B. Counter-Clockwise What is the Axis of Rotation? #2 Let's all bend C. Forward( and bow to your partner) D. Extend (and back up to do se do) What is the Axis of Rotation? #3 Lets do side bends and situps but baby don't lose that butt(For Bucket Only) E. Side Bend to the Right F. Side Bend to the Left What is the axis of rotation? Now take all 4 sections and move in these here directions? Then go back to a golf stroke and look through that tint of a looking glass!!!! PS. The answers to the questions concerning axis of rotation are in the little print under the picture? |
All 4 segments change. Pretty dramatically. There would also be big differences in their motion if using a Flat or Rotated Shoulder Turn.
But he77 man, the language has changed again!. The anteroposterior axis is now a Z. Does make it easier. Think I am drifting your way but it will take a little time. Need to incubate a few things. Para un Campesino, este es muy muy, complicado!. Hasta Luego!.:read: :confused1 |
OK Boss. Is this anything remotely like what you are looking for ?.
Sample, testing testing. Only Sacral motion. 3 positions. Sacral - Address - Moderate / X axis (Flexion) Slight / Z axis (Lateral Bend to right) Top - Extreme / Y axis ( Rotation clockwise) Moderate / X axis Slight / Z axis right Impact/ Follow Through - Extreme / Y axis ( Counterclockwise) Moderate / X axis Slight / Z axis right. The spine is a snake and he is rotating around me, not the other way round. :confused1 |
Great effort Yipped....We'll go through it slowly
The Pelvis is rotated forward at address...with flexion at both hips and a very slight extension of the tailbone and lower portion of the lumbar....With minimal to no lateral flexion and rotation due to a squared away body alignment at address... In the backstroke..the pelvis rotates clockwise with internal rotation at the right hip and external rotation at the left hip depending on the pivot style (slide versus shiftless) would determine the amount of lateral flexion at each hip joint thus affecting greatly the hip slant...Note: also the amount of backstoke hip slide and/or change in leg action would also cause a slight abduction at the left hip with perhaps a very slight increase in flexion ans a slight adduction and slight movement toward extension in the right hip joint Downstroke the pelvis is rotating counter-clockwise and the opposite motions and rotation at each hip joint will take place and also moving with some degree of translation due to hip slide thus causing an overall Axis Tilt...to set in.. During the Follow Through and Finsh there is both the continual rotation counter-clockwise of the pelvis and internal rotation at the left hip and some internal rotation at the right hip at and extension of the pelvis and both of the hip joints resulting from the degree of hip slide caused by translation all causing the Torso to move up and back toward a neutral alignment for the Finish.... woah...that's just a very basic description of the pelvis.... |
Thanks, I think I can imagine what an in depth description looks like!.:( :read:
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Following up to <<Now take all 4 sections and move in these here directions?>>
How is that done or is it a result? Appreciate your efforts on this challenging subject. DRW EDIT: OK. Missed your last post. |
Pelvis
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OK... Maybe we can break these items down one at a time. The neutral position of the pelvis is about 30 degrees. "The Pelvis is rotated forward at address." (1)Is the pelvis still neutral at address? (2) Does the pelvis vary from this neutral position throughout the stroke, and if so when and how much? |
Great question Lagster......depends on factors such as body build and ball flight preference
Tip du Jour...More pelvic angle for a cut shot that start to the left of the stance line than that of a draw that starts to the right of the stance line!!! |
Pelvis Angle
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Some some Pelvic Angle factors-- 1. Height of player 2. Length of legs, arms, torso of player 3. Genetics-- flexibility, muscle development, etc. 4. Gender 5. Age 6. Ball flight preference 7. 8. |
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DRW |
The Foot and Knee action influence the Hip Action so have a huge effect on how not only the Sacral and Lumbar spine moves, but the whole Spine.
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Yoda is not alone. Leg driving in the Downswing was THE WAY back in the seventies.
Dr Jim Suttie maintains 80% of all golfers incur back problems at some time in their career, and that hospital beds are full of leg drivers!. I think it depends on how much you want to protect your back. "Good golfer = Bad Back" - Roberto De Vicenzo. Seems to go with the territory. A stress free back during the Golf Swing would mean standing more erect and turning the Pivot Components back and through together. Lagless. Would have obvious disadvantages. |
Hitting as many shots left handed as right handed, or vice versa, would also prevent injury. If you have a lot of time of course.:eyes:
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OK... there's the very BASIC DESCRIPTION of the Sacral Motion during a golf motion. How about moving UP to the Lumbar Spine? ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// How about the LOWER BACK? How much Lordonic Curve should one have at Address? Does it stay the same throughout the Stroke? |
How much Lordodic Curve one should have varies from individual to individual...That's like saying everyone in the world fits into a 34 waist and 32 inseam....
The Lumbar Spine is flexed forward as a result of the flexion at the hips...some extension at the lumbar produces the lordodic curve you speak of...again this varies individual to individual... Throughout the swing the changes in the lumbar spine are very slight with the major changes occurring during the rise through Impact, Follow-Through and Finsih..moving from Flexion to Extension....   The Thoracic Spine changes are subject to individual posture differences...Some have a flatter upper spine due to the cervical spine remaining closer to neutral...while others who have more flexion at the neck this causes more protrusion of the thoracic spine..making it more of a rounded look....These players experience more changes throuhgout the stroke..... |
Annikan,
Sounds like the sacral section has more potential for change than the lumber section? Does having the sacral section set up with more extension prevent or promote movement in that direction during the swing? Also would like to hear Vicki's opinion on this subject! H |
Stricker's posture looks much more natural to me.
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Sorry that's Badds and Grant Waite..
Natural doesn't mean neutral.....or does it? The Thoracic Spine with a Rotated Shoulder Turn has more changes to the spine than that of the Flat Shoulder Turn.... Dunno..ask Vicki.. Vicki? |
Vicki Lake...Maybe that's out of her realm of expertise!
"The Thoracic Spine with a Rotated Shoulder Turn has more changes to the spine than that of the Flat Shoulder Turn...." How so? Backswing? Downswing? |
I showed you in the Creek!!!!
RE-MEMBER!!!!!!! |
Still incubating but words help!
Understand the effects on head centre, hip tilt, and waist bend. Just haven't transferred that knowledge to ball flight changes. There's a lot to it you know:study: :read: |
When/ Where/ Why?
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When, where, and why do these spine angle changes occur in the Throacic Area? Why are there more changes in the Rotated than the Flat Shoulder Turn? |
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Because the plane of the shoulder turn component is different? The shoulder turn center is the Top of the Spine "Between the Shoulders"...therefore how one sets up the posture of the neck and the upper back is going to have a major factor in the motion of plane of the shoulders.... More flexion of the neck and upper spine...more deviation...in order to maintain visual centers of balance and rotation |
 Study the Colored Lines... White Oval...Pelvis Yellow Line... Lumbar Red Line...Thoracic Blue Oval ..Cervical and Head Notice the Red Line has a Lateral Bend to the Right of the Yellow Line ....Yes?  Now is the Red Line still a Lateral Bend to the Right of the Yellow Line? or is it a Lateral Bend to the Left of the Yellow Line?  What about now? Is the Red Line a Lateral Bend to the Left of the Yellow Line or is it now a Lateral Bend to the Right of the Yellow Line again But more than the Address?  Same Question different View? If you don't see it...I'll understand.... Keep it warm!!!! The incubator that is!!! |
Annikan~
Do you have a TOP photo from the sequence of the first and last? DRW Quote:
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No...only overhead's I have is Mac O'Grady, Curtis Strange, Payne Stewart and a bunch of Carolinas PGA Professionals from my days at the Needles!!!!
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Top
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I think there is a view of Mr. Snead at the Top from this view back in the earlier parts of this section. Page 4 |
From a previous post!!!!
Study the Segment Angles of the Torso and the Upper Leg...pay closed attention to the markers...remeber they are red dots!!! Measure the angles formed by the right shoulder, right hip, right knee at address.....compare the same angles to the right shoulder, right hip and right knee at the End from the rear ..try the same for the left shoulder,left hip, and left lnee....Are they exactly the same? How is it these angles change...? Hey captain obvious ..the legs action influences the Sacral and the Lumbar Movements...then how is this affecting the other segments of the spine? HMMM... To deep for my rudimentary understanding!!!!! Address:  End: Clue: The axis of rotation changes at least 3 times not twice or just once  After Impact:  What happened to the forward bend as demonstrated in the address...Was it replaced by lateral bending and extension?...No it cannot be!!!...He'd be coming out of his spine angle right? |
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You'll have to wait til tomorrow....That's a work thing...wife already hates the fact I visit these TGM sites....If you know what I mean!!!
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Keep it Going
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Let's keep this thing going! Is the Spine a Stationary Post, or just the HEAD that is Stationary? |
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