You need another 2500 posts before you can recognize "junk".:laughing9

Ok then . . . where is the pulley then? I'm willing to learn if you are willing to teach . . . and who is "you guys"? I think I'm the only one pushing this deal . . . no use puttin' any of my words in anybody else's mouth.

So talk to me about the pulley . . .

OK . . . . I gotta step up here . . . I apologize to y'all . . . my tone has been harsh . . . no personal beef here with MizunoJoe et. all. I am sincerely sorry for my behavior here.

I'm stepping outta this one.

Never harsh, just passionate about what you believe. You have worked your butt off in finding your own way without blind faith in anybody, including Homer Kelley. Nothing but respect and gratitude for all your help Mr. Bucket. You are one of the finest on the WWW!

Kevin

This was inevitable I guess. We went from Snap for Comdpa to Ben's auto snap release , passive hands thing vs other ways. Bens way is in the book , but it isnt Swinging/ general. Its a way , not the only way. Its a darn good way though for some, agreed. But you can swing with a non auto release for instance and not be so ...."passive hands" , if you will.

We're all part of the same clan but we have different terms and different frames of reference. The first gsem's , gsed's respectfully , got some stuff mixed up and we are still paying the price... Its time to straighten stuff out and hopefully move on.

Call me a romantic if you must.

compda opened the thread with a very good snap release using a non-maximum pitch elbow just on the right hip. We have seen other snap releases using the pitch elbow in front of the right hip, but is it really a necessary condition for the "best" snap? Let's look at the 2011 Masters Champ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2nPXpJQQpgA&NR=1

Starting at the :32 mark, look at the shaft angles and elbow positions by clicking through the frames. The right elbow stays to the right of the right hip, but just look at that delayed wrist action. Maybe compda had it just right from the beginning?

Thanks for this video...one thing that I am trying to work into my swing is a more active pivot. Focus on Charl's belt buckle to see the "work" that is being put in.

Also...

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AY7xLq9wUc

As per 2-M-3, "No amount of effort will produce more than a player's maximum turning speed."

By "not so passive hands" do you mean intentional wrist uncocking?

That is straight to the point of the not-so-max pitch elbow! Both Charl and Freddie turn their hips as they make a great lateral shift, rather than the delayed hip action. This pretty much preempts a pitch elbow in front of the right hip, but with the lateral shift, the elbow will be plenty far forward to preserve the right elbow bend, which preserves the left wrist cock.

As for 2-M-3, how does this relate to your adding a more active pivot? What specific hip action are you working on? Both Charl and Freddie use turn, slide, turn, but Charl turns deeper on the BS with a more modest lateral shift and raises the hips up through impact, while Couples makes a huge lateral shift and turns level on the DS, but he just doesn't turn the hips deep enough on the BS for my money. Hogan is probably the gold standard for hip action.

Short answer: Yes, but you can intentionally Roll too.

Long answer:

When discussing Swinging , the typical Non Auto Throw for a full shot would be a (Left) Wrist Throw. Either an on plane intentional, Non Auto uncocking of the left wrist , with the left wrist turned flat to the plane , sequenced release , 2 then 3 or an intentional rolling of the left palm off the inclined plane for an overlapping release 3 and 2 together. It sorta tips the club head over (breaking the longitudinal) to induce CF's pull on the head or throwout, Radial Acceleration. Different Non Auto flails , both swingers flails but with different associated feels. Sequenced feels like you drag longitudinally then thow out #2 angle and let #3 roll on its own at the bottom while the other one feels more like you're rolling the #3 angle with cf undoing the #2. The guys who like the Roll version typically prefer the low elbow planes.

I wasnt addressing Ben or his teaching, more the perception held by some guys on the net that TGM swinging is strictly Auto everything, Auto Release, true swinging , with what they call "passive hands" and that hitting is an active manipulation of release ( Non Auto Release). Which isnt square with how Homer defined Swinging or Hitting. Either way the hands are clamps but thats another story.

You can swing and manipulate Release, Uncock and/or Roll as hard as you want. Stick the thing right in the ground and hard. I believe the on plane Uncocking version is the better of the two for full power shots, Swinging but to each their own.

Which is what I see in that Mike Austin video above. A Non Auto (Left) Wrist Throwout of #2 Angle with the Left Hand still turned to the INclined Plane. Despite the Non Auto Throw he did have a small pulley wheel (and high hand speed. A high overtaking rate. He was long, to say the least.)


Comdpa since you're goofing around with your Release.....try a Left Wrist Throw and see what happens to your shots. There might be some added zing to em. Its not necessarily a big throwout of #2 angle down the plane just a little toss will do it to get CF pull , throwout started. Sort of like a running start on throwout. You must delay it of course , dont do it from top. Keep the left wrist flat to plane while Drag Loading and then Throw or toss out some #2 angle at the plane line while holding the left wrist turned to plane. It'll roll off on its own at the bottom. 2 then 3. You might be shocked by how late it can still look on tape. Maybe it isnt for you but its worth experimenting with it. Start at slower speeds then build it up. You can go to fast and ruin it. CF only likes to go so fast at first but once it takes hold you can never catch up to it via muscular effort.