Here's a couple of quotes from the book :


The second last sentence is the one that causes me some trouble. It will play a big part in whats coming as it relates to what Homer refers to as the Straight Away Position. I dont get it frankly. Would there not be divergence albeit lessened by steeper plane angles . Maybe some body can explain it to me ...



I know Ive read about hook face in other contexts ( a more "dynamic " version if you will ) somewhere in the darn book .... cant find it right now.. Has anyone got em handy?

When the ball is struck before low point the club head and face is pointed down out and forward if not built with hookface. ie. the club head crosses the plane line on the way to low point. This will hit the ball to right field, a little. at the intended point of impact the club head, with hookface, is designed to sit square to the plane line. Therefore, at impact the ball will have a clubface pointed along the plane line/target line not out to right field.
Right field is a tangent at impact.
That is just this bears understanding. But U should pick the understanding U like.

Merry Christmas
:xmas-smiley-022:
The HB

HB

I get you. So to talk geometry for a moment (cause Im too lazy to draw it) the club without hook face for balls played back of low point (given no grip rotation) will hit straight shots but pushed to the right . No divergence between face and path.

However a similarly positioned ball with a hooked face club hits a ball that has an initial line of flight which is a cord to the circle . Along the Impact Plane Line if the face is so aligned.

But the clubhead does not travel along this plane line it travels the circular orbit and continues down and out to low point. Which to me implies a divergence between and path .... albeit lessened by steeper plane angles...

ah crap I guess I should draw this.... The steepness of the plane angle and the added loft of the most hooked face clubs could negate draw spin. But there's more to the story if Homer thought that balls played forward of the Straight Away position had a fade tendency.

And therein lies the point I wish Lynn or Ted or the ghost of Homer would clarify Or perhaps I have things all askew.. ? It wouldnt be the first time , nor the last.


Maybe I should research the audio tapes. We need to define the Straight Away Position .

Following are two attempts to draw hook-face . Well as I understand it anyways anyways. Currently. Clarification is welcome .

The first one addressing the notion of hook-face as an angle between face and shaft that allows shorter clubs to be played back in the stance with a face that points down the impact plane line. Clubs are manufactured to sit like this , easily , naturally.

The second trying to and probably failing to illustrate a more "dynamic" version if you will. Just made that term up myself. A hooked-face induced by moving the sweetspot aft of the leading edge . Still trying to find where Homer alludes to this . I know its there somewhere.

(HB I know you have issues with the second drawing... In regard to its practicality given theres a human holding the club etc. Just saying/drawing )


Attachment 2942


NOTE THE FOLLOWING DRAWING IS NOT GEOMETRY OF THE CIRCLE IN NATURE . MORE PHYSICS RELATED.
Attachment 2943

No No, If the ball es struck at the point for streight fleight then the ball will have a fade tendency even if it is still before low point. So HK is correct- (I don't have to say that)forward of the STRAIGHT AWAY POSITION is the key wording.

First thing is to know if ypu are a true swinger or "otherwise" because the ball goes otherwise if you hit it otherwise..


HB

Deep thoughts coming:

Is hook-face a built in Grip Rotation so to speak?

If there is a dynamic hook-face would true swingers be able to play the ball back in their stance accordingly. Seems like they could ... if they really exist that is in the wild as opposed to a theoretical construct. The extreme end of the manipulated / unmanipulated spectrum . Those for whom CF alone squares the clubface .

Ive stepped in two cow pie's in a single step here maybe. Its a good thing we're in the Lab.

Thank you Beer ... oops now theres an idea . Where the heck is my christmas afternoon beverage?

Merry Christmas to all who may be laying around reading LBG at this moment. If so its very much a "lunatics have taken over the asylum" kind of thing this thread is. Regular programming will commence again once the guards get us locked up properly and sedated.

Uh still struggling with this one HB. Can it be drawn? Where's the plane line pointing , wheres the Straight Away Position on the arc of approach etc etc ?

I will read your post shortly BUT

You aint gona slip thjat "CONE" by me.

HB

I know , I know . You beat my edit to the post.

Now, in the defence of cones... A swinging door (single Horizontal) could putt a very nice ball , ball location needing to be precise as it influences the direction directly . Variation in direction along a horizontal plane. Whereas a swinging pet door would have more margin for ball positioning as its variation is along a vertical plane ... blah blah blah bl.... :)

(Getting back to geometry nicely. One step into the physics and yikes.)

Here's the section of the book I was trying to find .. Hook face in a more dynamic manner , if you will. Found it in Aiming Point Procedure.

The hook-face and aiming point do relate as changes in ball position away from the Straight Away Position can / must be offset by changes in the Aiming Point Procedure . Most commonly done subconsciously . "Done by feel" in common speak . Hand / eye. IMO. You get a feel for the stick in your hands , how it "swings" with a practice swing or waggle and then hit the ball having made a suitable adjustment to the feel / effort needed to make that particular lever switch ends and arrive at its Fix alignment at Impact.

In one sense, the Aiming point as a spot along the Arc of Approach is a way of tricking yourself into making the club release in a speedier , slower manner so as to reach its Fix Alignment more correctly. Done via trial and error . IMO. Leaving your driver out to the right ? You could move the Aiming Point ever so slightly back along the arc of approach to trick you into applying the force necessary to square the club quicker.. so to speak.

There are other applications too , concepts relating to Aiming Point.

This aint geometry of the circle either but we're gonna need it to understand the Homerian view of the manner in which a golfing master hits the golf ball. Uh if that's possible .. tbd. gonna need a little help from our friends.



FROM THE 6TH EDITION.