Short answer: Yes, but you can intentionally Roll too.
You can swing and manipulate Release, Uncock and/or Roll as hard as you want. Stick the thing right in the ground and hard.
Is this the pattern Tomasello taught to a guy who calls himself Coophitter on forums? He said TT told him to drive the hosel into the ground about 6" to the right of his right heel using his arms/wrists/hands only and no pivot.
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Keep the left wrist flat to plane while Drag Loading and then Throw or toss out some #2 angle at the plane line while holding the left wrist turned to plane. It'll roll off on its own at the bottom. 2 then 3. You might be shocked by how late it can still look on tape.
What would be the advantage of doing this? Shocked is right!
Is this the pattern Tomasello taught to a guy who calls himself Coophitter on forums? He said TT told him to drive the hosel into the ground about 6" to the right of his right heel using his arms/wrists/hands only and no pivot.
IMO, close but not the same in that Lynn and Homer teach the Throw to be down the inclined plane as opposed to vertically into the ground. TT was no doubt influenced by the Divergent Vectors of 2-N-1. But with 2-N-1 independent pivot and arm motion direction in mind, the intention is always down the plane or towards the plane line. The intention being consistent with the net effect of the divergent vectors.
For example. Take any motion requiring pivot and arm motion. Grab something off the floor......your hand go towards the target but when the motion of the pivot and arms are seen in isolation they are going their own unique ways with the net effect being the hands going towards the target. We dont give any thought to it , it just is. Its something we have programmed in. This is the essence of Homers independent arm and pivot motion notion ....the argument against hankies under the armpits. Im not saying strapping the pivot and arms together cant be done effectively by some but it isnt necessary in normal human motion , other sports or in golf.
Man Ive been challenging a lot of GSED's stuff lately. I have nothing but respect for all those guys, truly. But ..... thats my opinion, currently.
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What would be the advantage of doing this? Shocked is right!
Anybody know Yoda's help line number?
MJ, If you're auto snap maybe you dont need to try it but for the less fortunate it can be a pathway to auto snap, well that and Homers Aiming Point Procedure. And as in the Mike Austin instance, not a bad way to place to stop and hang around.
Non auto can still be snap, a non auto snap confining ourselves to the mechanical advantage of snap. That isnt necessarily lost ....you can still delay.
Advantages? It added some zip to the ball for me with my random sweep.
In training it can clear up the perception of what release is , where it is and where on the grip you need to apply thrust to attain the release type you want. Top (sequenced) or aft (overlapping) etc. To employ a non auto throw you have to know what pressure points are involved , which lag pressure point to use, rotated or non rotated.
EVeryone has Forward but the throw if On Plane is Down and OUt the two hardest dimensions to achieve of three dimensional impact.
You're slamming that clubhead down and out, crossline if you will, which pretty much rules out steering it towards the target.
If you're actively uncocking the left wrist you are less inclined to bend it, lose rhythm in Homers terms, throwaway. Throwout is not throwaway.
Imagine throwing a club down the fairway , the application of end over end radial will send the club a long way , further than a longitudinal spear chucking.....this is the Mike Austin argument maybe. Radial is powerful.
ITS UNDER LYNN BLAKE GOLF ON YOU TUBE THAT CHANNEL I'M USING A STUPID MOBILE PAD WITH NO VIDEO OR FLASH.
Originally Posted by O.B.Left
I know I suffer from lag envy.
Re Mr Batspeed. I agree with everything he is saying and believe Homer would too. Given a true straight line hand path there is no CF (the force not the release type some guys talk about) Throwout. Law of the flail, the swingle releases and accelerates ahead of the handle without any force being applied from the hands or arms directly to it ......you cant if its a string or leather strap that connects the two pieces. Pure CF throwout. In other words no curved path, no circular motion, no CF or its throwout. And I believe Mr Batspeed's straight line then right arm participation release type is akin to Drag Loading then Drive in Homer speak.
I see him as describing a problem for batters where they go straight line too long..........something you dont see in golf where people tend to not have enough Longitudinal , Straight Line and throw it from the Top early.
I wouldnt change Stricker or Watson's Release personally. But they do Delay their Release Point for a mechanical advantage to my mind.
So Id say:
1. Given the same hand speed , lever length and assuming no slowing effect associated with lever extension: The later the Release the faster the Clubhead Speed given the Overtaking Rate discussion of 2-P and the Endless Belt pulley wheel analogy.
2. Throw in the slowing effect and the difference is bigger.
3. The same clubhead speed could be achieved by increasing the Hand Speed for the earlier Release Type.
4. Earlier Release's have a shallower Angle of Attack effecting the geometry of Impact (positively for some shots, negatively for others).
Here's where Ive been dying to go with this discussion
5. Confining ourselves to Swinging , Sequenced Release here. Can some Non Auto Release Triggers actually do more than merely Trigger Release? Can they Power the Release of #2 angle to a speed higher than CF would induce? In other words could an active , Non Auto Left Wrist Throw , vertical hammering like motion add more final clubhead speed?
If so you have a method of powering the swingle. (Some Non Auto Releases for sure just Trigger Release)
Bucket have you ever seen these?
Sounds like a Release Throw to me , not sure if its Left WRist or Right Arm but to guess Id say Left Wrist as he gets really close to demonstrating Sequenced Release , 2 then 3 at the bottom. A Non Auto Release Trigger he seems to ascribe it to the right elbow unfolding, interestingly.
You can if you freeze frame notice a Delayed Release again ......... mechanical advantage in evidence to my mind but not crazy late.
Speaking of Right Elbow Magic and where the Throw is take a look at this Yoda movie. In application the Release Point , Throw can be Delayed to a point later than illustrated , or it perhaps another stimulus/response thing?
Im trying to find that video of Yoda with his wooden flail from ITC's visit to Cuscowilla. In it Yoda notes when and how early the swingle releases. Its gravity powered in the demonstration and flips over when the handle is sorta kinda opposite his side as I recall. Earlier than you would tend to think.
At the risk of stating the obvious, Homer was not all about max delay! Its an option and like all options with its own implications. But that said , Id like a little more Longitudinal . Just not sure how to get it.
Could you create more lag at #2 by creating more lag at components further up stream? Using the whip analogy. I shot a little two under par at Wailea Gold (6,650 yards) today with my Arms heavy and lagging my Shoulders. Had to get the Pivot going to do that. Probably still looked like Stricker though. Man, just a tad more Longitudinal would be nice..... please.
Damn , I also want moves like Jagger.
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HP, grant me the serenity to accept what I cannot change, the courage to change what I can, and the wisdom to know the difference. Progress and not perfection is the goal every day!
A face on video of me trying to rev up the hip motion - trying to get the hips to open up while keeping shoulders closed.
Much more dynamic hip action than previously and at least as much snap as before. I really like the slant of your right leg and how you preserve it as you turn into the right heel. By keeping the right shoulder back on the DS, the hip action forces it to go down plane - nowhere else it can go!
Very nice swing, good work. Where to now, even more open hips at impact? Still swinging the arms more outward?
Much more dynamic hip action than previously and at least as much snap as before. I really like the slant of your right leg and how you preserve it as you turn into the right heel. By keeping the right shoulder back on the DS, the hip action forces it to go down plane - nowhere else it can go!
Very nice swing, good work. Where to now, even more open hips at impact? Still swinging the arms more outward?
I will definitely try to make this move unconscious and also concentrate on keeping my left arm slightly bent. I think my left arm is too straight and stiff at the moment. Thanks for chiming in!
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