Under plane

[EdZ]

How do you correct getting too far under the plane in the downswing? I have a tendency to take the club out on the backswing and drop it to the inside coming down.

Is anyone familiar with this problem? How would you correct it?

The ball will go dead right and short.

Often this happens when the shoulder turn gets too flat, and you don't turn fully enough on the backswing to get it back to the plane - thus you can't go 'downplane'.

One potential reason for the shoulder component change to 'rotated' from 'flat' in the 7th edition.

That said - a key to helping resolve it is to think of getting the lead shoulder 'under' your chin on the backswing, and the trail shoulder 'under' your chin on the downswing. Be careful not to overdo it, can lead to head bobbing, especially on the backswing. Getting the shoulder 'under' your chin on the backswing will allow you to get those hands into a higher position and onto a steeper plane angle both back and through.

[Mike O]

We're talking about "underplane" when the clubshaft doesn't point at the plane line (instead it points outside of it). A shift to a flatter plane angle with the shaft still on-plane isn't that big of a problem, but being flat and off-plane is a big problem. You do come into impact feeling too much inside-out and are usually left hopelessly unable to control the clubface. What feels like you "driving to the inside aft quadrant of the ball" is in reality you dropping the clubshaft off-plane and driving to outside the plane line.

Thanks Mike; your thoughts would be much appreciated.

Thanks,
I've got the image now. Don't really like the term "under plane"- although if well defined as mentioned then no problem.

If I were to translate the same thing to a different description I would say that it's:

The flattening of the plane on the downswing while changing the plane line from square on the backswing to closed on the downswing. If you've got your "straight shot" grip to begin with and then change the plane line coming down to way right- essentially no way to square the blade without throwaway.

Although, this would be something that you would really want to check on video.

Usually, things in the golf movement come in pairs. If you've got one problem then you've got another to offset it. So if you've been coming over the top- you might also be blocking the shot to prevent a big pull. Now, for that person - coming down on plane without correcting the "ingrained block" would create an "under plane" feel and an "under plane" ball flight. So instead of trying to not come down "under plane" they would want to make sure while they were coming down that they allowed better rotation of the face. So case by case. Not saying in this last paragraph that you guys were not saying that this possibility existed, or that you were not aware of it, I'm just throwing it out there since it hadn't been explicited posted.

[Mike O]

When I first began with TGM, I latched onto some bad information that I still fight to this day - elbow stuck way in front, clubshaft dropping underplane, face stuck open. This resulted in either vicious hooks or huge pushes. As one would expect, my game improved immensely once I found some better information. These days, especially when I don't play much, I really need to focus on plane angle and clubface. And my rounds this year all left a lot to be desired.

At a recent range session, I wracked my brain for the tricks and ideas that brought me out of these funks when they occurred years ago. I figure I'd put them out there for the benefit of everyone with plane issues because as we know they can be extremely frustrating.

The first thing I did is envision the problem - when I got to the top, my left wrist was Turning at startdown and thus allowing the shaft to flatten and move underplane. What I felt as "on plane" was in fact underplane. The fix for this is to exaggerate it the other way. I feel like the clubshaft is very much "in front" of my body, even at the top. From there, I try to drive the butt-end of the club into the ground in front of the ball. This naturally steepens the plane angle while still allowing you to dynamically maintain lag pressure.

However, it's harder to achieve this feeling with longer clubs simply because you get the sensation that you're chopping wood with your driver. When this happens, I feel like I speed up my arms in relation to my pivot. I start down by feeling like my arms almost get past my line-of-sight to the ball before my pivot starts rotating. The underplane clubshaft is caused by the exact opposite - your pivot spinning while the arms stay back and then fall behind you. When you start feeling as though your arms move first, make sure to keep your right shoulder back and on-plane instead of collapsing it into the ball.

Of course, it takes some time before you get comfortable with these changes. At first, it feels like you can't even put the clubface on the ball from these "odd" positions. How can you go "out to right field" when you feel like you're coming over the top? After a while, though, it starts feeling more natural and the ball starts flying normally.

I've tried all sorts of ideas to fix plane problems and I'm starting to believe that the best way to deal with them is to simply exaggerate the opposite. You can try to just put it on plane (with laser pointers, mirror work, etc) but more often than not you fall into the "feel versus real" trap - you think you're on-plane, you're actually underplane, it's just a big roundabout. So take your 9-iron and start trying to stick the butt-end into the ground ahead of the ball. Yes, it'll feel over-the-top and like you're chopping wood. When you start taking divots and the ball is flying correctly, start adjusting it back to where it's comfortable. If weird shots occur, go back to exaggerated. Back and forth until you've got it.

Matt,
One more bit of feedback. A lot of good stuff in this post of yours. Specifically, shows the difficulty of making changes- "wracked my brain".

Also, shows how important understanding the feel system is - and how strange the feels can be for a correct motion- for a specific example that I'll make up here- " Drop your head 6 inches on the backswing- lift it 6 inches up on the downswing- make sure that your right arm stays straight on the backswing- and bend your left wrist coming down"- that feel could result in a steady head - on plane motion- with a flat left wrist- depending on your prior movement.

This post of yours shows that you've got a real good understanding of the learning process.

[12 piece bucket]

Boys and Girls and Koolaid Kidz . . . Listen up!!!! This is Mike O's element!!! He is pure genius at this highminded swing changing stuff. Mike O = E.F. Hutton.

He was nice enough to help Bucket out and was very much "on point."

Anytime Mike O posts anything read it particularly if it is on the learning process, swing changes, or shooting baby ducks with bb guns.